[1.1.x] Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)

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mattc3303 wrote:
Interesting.

I always was thinking of making an expendable minion type build. What are the advantages of spell toteming the raging spirit as oppose to self cast? Your losing 50% damage on top of their 70% damage effectiveness with damage auras.

This definitely seems like the type I would use on hardcore. Super safe and minimizing contact with any monster.



The spell totem is actually not that bad:
-50% Less Damage
-30% Less Cast Speed

3 Totems put out as much equivalent Ranging Spirits as a player standing still spamming the ability (1 totem = 35%, 2 = 70%, 3 = 105%).

The primary advantage is mobility, you can cast a totem and move on (such as avoiding AoE or rushing through trash). The totems at my level stay up nearly a minute, much longer than needed. On some fights I'll just keep running (such as fire storms coming after me) while the totems continue bringing death to the boss.

Next, is projection; you can cast a spell totem forward of your position or even through grates / over spaces. Your totem then casts RS on anything in its range. This allows you to project power.

Along with projection is focus fire. You can summon totems on top of things (like allies can not die totems or bosses) and they will focus fire it.

Then is collision. The totems act as a collidable object. You can use them to block entrances or prevent projectiles form hitting you (3 totems in a line will block a row of arches, then cast your Skeletons in front of the totems and profit).

Last is, well they are expendable. On some bosses I spam totems and the bosses keep them dead (not before they get off 2-3 spirits). Bosses end up dead and you don't.





As for Hardcore and defense. Without a doubt, this is a very defensible build with a knowledgeable player. Your totems/minions can be used as walls and placed in hostile situations while you keep safe.

With that said, knowledgeable is the key word. I still have some gaming to do in this game before I know all the mechanics and what to avoid. I have died.... more than what you can in hardcore ;).

I'm hoping that I get this tweaked down with progression enough that when I'm ready for my next char I can give hardcore a few goes.

(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
Completed the re-worked Passive Tree / Leveling section.
Passive Skill Trees and Leveling (Witch Start):
Spoiler

Level 19-20 (around the time you are doing your first set of quests in Act 2 Normal)
23 Points - Witch Start
- You can now equip a Rejuvenation Totem. You'll only get this as a drop; so if you don't have it yet I recommend you pick it up for ~10 Orbs of Alteration.
- This becomes your primary totem until you pick up a Spell Totem / Dual Totem

Level 27 (about the time you enter Act III on Normal):
30 Points - Minion Instability
- With this Keystone, you can now use your Skeletons as 'Bombers'. Casting them on bosses that insta gib them will cause that boss to 'kill itself' on the explosions of your dead.

Level 33-35 (around the time you kill Piety on Normal):
39 Points - Dual Totem
- At this point you can now equip Dual Totems along with the Spell Totem (Level 31). You do get the spell totem as a quest reward (around level 40), however they can typically be had for ~10 Orbs of Alteration. Picking it up for the Dominus fight is recommended.

Level 43 (about the time you finish the side quests on Act 2 in Cruel)
52 Points - Auras and Minions
- Here you add to your ability to support a second aura (so you can do Clarity and Discipline) in anticipation of swapping to Chaos Inoculation later.
- You also expand your Army and add some much needed minion regen/leach.

Level 51-52 (around the time you kill Piety on Cruel)
64 Points - Chaos Inoculation / Zealot's Oath
- Here you make the transition to Chaos Inoculation / Zealot's Oath.
- You'll want to have 2 points available and pick both of these at the same time (after killing Piety you get a book with 2 skill points, a perfect time to transition).
- You'll also want to make sure that your gear can support this. Your ES should be ~ 2x your life at this point. If you need to, delay these keystones until you are ready.
- Getting these two key stones is important to living through Merciless.
- This is also a great time to decide to pick up Soul Mantle (level 49) and at least one Flask of Warding (removes curses). You can expect to pay ~10c for the Soul Mantle. If you've followed my loot guidance, you'll likely have enough by this level. Take a look at the Exile Stats for currency exchange rates. A few stacks of Alteration and Chromatic Orbs should offset the 2-3c you've likely already found.
- Try for a 3-4 link mantle to start (Damage, Duration, Cast Speed. As this is an INT based item, getting 3 blue and 1 red will only take a few Chromatic Orbs; so you can mostly ignore the colors of the mantle you purchase.

Level 60 (Starting Act III on Merciless)
78 Points - Minion Master
- You'll grab Faith and Steel first for the defense; and then spend the rest of your time fleshing out all your minion nodes.
- At this point, you are really enjoying life as all the 'key players' are out.

Level 67 (Dominus on Merciless)
85 Points - Starting Maps
- This puts us at 'End Game' where we grab a few more items to shore up our defense before killing Dominus and moving into Maps.
- Elemental Adaptation to get our resists above the 75% cap.
- Then Infused Shield and Arcane Focus for the Energy Shield
- Keep in mind, most of our defense comes from playing the game right (player skill using all the minions and such along with a regen totem for Energy Shield). You should have enough 'buffer' to survive one or two mistakes. This is not a tanking build.

Level 75 (Build Complete)
93 Points - Final Build
- At this point you are done. Level 75 and call it a day.
- Your last points are pushing for Leadership followed by Influence to support your Auras.

Fantasy
120 Points - Fantasy Build
- Body and Soul should be your playing forever target at 99 Points.
- Then your remaining 8% Energy Shield and Aura Effect Nodes at 102 points.
- Next your Unnatural Calm at 104 Points.
- The rest is your 6% Energy Shield / 8% Armor Nodes; your 6% Energy Shield Nodes; and your 10% reduced cooldown nodes.
- At the end Cast Speed is all you'll have left.
(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
Last edited by MaddBomber83#5049 on Mar 24, 2014, 2:12:10 PM
Completed the re work of the Skills Used Section.
Skills Used:
Spoiler

Raging Spirit (4) and Spell Totem (31):
- Until Level 31 you will be the one spamming Raging Spirit. After that you'll let your totems handle this task.
- You need to be able to spam this, so until Spell Totem only add supports if you can still spam with the higher cost.
- We will support Raging Spirt / Spell Totem with (Minion Damage - 19)(Increased Duration - 24)(Faster Casting - 31)
- Eventually you will 5 link this on a chest (RBBB and a R/B)
- Discussion on Raging Spirit:
Spoiler
Raging Spirit (Primary DPS)
- This minion ignores collision and most terrain (usually only limited by walls).
- They attack whatever is close to them, and then move on.
- With 21 of these out, this creates a very effective AoE AND Single Target attack.
- Focus Fire (such as on enemy totems or those annoying allies can't die bosses) is achieved by summoning your totem directly on top of the target. This minion will continue attacking that target for the duration of the skull.
- You can take a defensive position near your totems, as each new minion will attack anything near that position, making it unlikely that you will get attacked.
- Support this skill with as many links as possible (spell totem, cast speed, minion damage, increased duration) along with any other supports you may have around (such as fire damage / penetration).
- You will only spam this to start a fight, during a fight you won't be recast much. (Before you get your spell totem, you will be spamming this and thus you may need to remove some supports so you can constantly spam it)
- Please note, melee splash is not recommended. While it makes its own LoL moments when your 21 raging spirits instagib a large group of mobs, the nature of Raging Spirits allows them to adapt easily from AoE to Single Target, making this support gem not needed.

- Discussion on Spell Totem:
Spoiler
Spell Totem (Primary DPS)
- This is for your Raging Spirits (or any DPS totem until you get this, such as searing bond, flame totems, and such).
- Totems have collision, so if you cast 2-3 of them in a door they will block it. Great to then cast your skeletons in front of the blocked door, and then recast a totem to allow your zombies through the door.
- Totems can be attacked, but if supported by an army of skeletons this should be minimal.


Summon Zombie (1):
- We will support this with (Minion Damage - 19)(Minion Life - 12)(Any other Support)
- As we will eventually be 4 linking this, Head/Gloves/Boots are good places to place it.
- Anything with + Level of Minions should go to your Zombies first.
- You won't be spamming this, so feel free to make it cost as much as you like.
- Discussion on Summon Zombie:
Spoiler
Summon Zombie (Primary Support)
- These guys are your primary companions. They give that extra buffer of being 8 more targets at the start of the fight, while you lay down 3 totems and 11 Skeletons.
- They also act as a meat wall, blocking movement of enemy forces.
- You'll support them with as many links as you can muster (Minion Life, Minion Damage) along with whatever you have lying around (added damage or health taps).
- You won't be spamming this, so feel free to make it cost a lot of power.
- You mostly just want them alive as long as possible, so pick supports for defense / life over damage.


Summon Skeletons (10):
- We will be supporting this with (Minion Life -12)(Minion Speed - 24)
- We need to be able to always spam this, so only support it if you can support the spam.
- 3 Links is all that we need, so your 1h weapon or shield are good places for this.
- Discussion on Summon Skeletons:
Spoiler
Summon Skeletons (Primary Defense)
- This is your wall, a moveable, exploding, wall of bone.
- During a fight, you will make sure you have the max number of skeletons up (summon replacements of these before replacing Zombies).
- Just like your totems, if you summon these on top of a target, they will focus fire it.
- Don't forget, they serve you in death just as well as in life; they explode.
- Support these with whatever gems you like (I do Speed / Life).
- Speed / Life will make sure they get to your target before they explode.
- This is a spell you will be spamming on tough fights, so make sure you can cover the powercost (remove supports if necessary).
- Cast these at choke points (doors) or in front of your totems (to defend a forward position) or on yourself (to create a fortified safe area).


Summon Spectre (19):
- We will support this with (Minion Damage - 19)(Minion Life - 12)
- As this will be sharing an item with another skill, we want a 4 link. Head/Gloves/Hands are a good place for this.
- Discussion on Summon Spectre:
Spoiler
Summon Spectre (Primary Modifier)
- This skill is your, hahaha button. If you find an enemy mob that made your life difficult, after they die make them fight for you.
- I prefer using ranged mobs as they tend to last forever when they stand back by you.
- Support this skill with as many supports as you can (you won't be casting this much).
- I'll sometimes use this and Skeletons in the same item supported by life / damage.
- Mobs that cast stuff (such as shoot Ice, or curses) are especially useful here.


Vaal Summon Skeletons (10):
- We will support this with (Minion Damage - 19)(Minion Life - 12)
- This will go into the same item as your Summon Spectre so that they can share the supports.
- Discussion on Vaal Summon Skeletons:
Spoiler
UNDER CONSTRUCTION


Clarity (10) and Discipline (31):
- We will support these with (Reduced Mana - 31)
- Discussion on Auras:
Spoiler
Auras
- Clarity is a huge boon to this build (can add more supports to spam).
- You don't want to constantly level this up (each level it will take a bit more power reserve).
- Only level this when you are no longer able to spam skills, depending on gear this may allow you to run a second Aura and still have enough left over power to spam.
- Support this with Reduced Mana
- Also throw in any other auras you are able to run. Things like added damage (Wrath, Anger) or Defense (Discipline, Purity of Elements), or whatever you happen to have lying around will help.
- If the Aurora reserves a percent of power (such as 60%), always level it. If it is a fixed amount (such as 120 power) then only level it when you can afford to do so.


Rejuvenation Totem (19):
- This skill has no supports.
- Once you hit level 45 you can find a nice Unset Ring to place this in. Don't worry about the color as it takes very few Chromatic Orbs to change it.
- Until then, throw this into whatever gear it will fit in.
- It may not look like it, but this is a priority spell.
- Discussion on Rejuvenation Totem:
Spoiler
Healing (for CI)
- Rejuvenating Totem is great to top off minions or cast when there are poison clouds (the life regen typically offsets the cloud damage).


Cast on Stun (24):
- We will support this with (Enfeeble - 19)(Molten Shell - 10)(Flesh Offering - 24)
- As we will be using 3 spells linked to this, a 4 link from your Helm/Gloves/Boots will be needed.
- Discussion on Cast when Stunned:
Spoiler
Cast on Stun (Reactive Defense and Offense)
- With a CI build, it is nearly every hit that gives you a mini, (you'll hear your char so Oh! stun. This with 3 linked abilities makes very active procs if you mess up!
- Molten Shell gives you a bunch of extra armor; and considering we have several armor nodes this is a no brainer.
- Enfeeble will give whoever hit you a nice curse to lower their ability to hit / damage you again.
- Those two are standard, what is not is... Flesh Offering!
- This makes being hit so much more satisfying as not only do you get a massive spike in damage, your horde moves much faster; this gets them into defensive positions better.
- I can't express how awesome it is, to get hit once, and all your minions take it personally.
- Another advantage with these 3 linked is you get a nice graphic when you get hit, just in case you were not watching your ES.

(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
"
mattc3303 wrote:
Interesting.

I always was thinking of making an expendable minion type build. What are the advantages of spell toteming the raging spirit as oppose to self cast? Your losing 50% damage on top of their 70% damage effectiveness with damage auras.

This definitely seems like the type I would use on hardcore. Super safe and minimizing contact with any monster.


I'm updating the DPS numbers a bit. This is slight theory crafting, but that 70% damage effectiveness is essentially negated by the totems.


I'm able to maintain 24 Raging Spirits right now with 3 totems. This is equivalent of a player maintaining 8 Raging Spirits.

An aura with +100 damage on it, will give the player 70 * 8 = 560.
That will give each totem cast RS +35 * 24 = 840.

The player suffers from a 70% damage effectiveness with Auras / Support Skills.
The totems enjoy a 105% damage effectiveness.

(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
Last edited by MaddBomber83#5049 on Mar 24, 2014, 3:34:24 PM
Your theory crafting is off by a small factor [30% LESS casting speed]

24 Spirits by 3 totems = 8 Spirits/totem.

8 / 0.7 = 11.43 spirits in the same time. Leave this at 11 to account for the fractional spirits from totems as well.

11 * 100 = 1100 [ if no Damage effectiveness applied ]
11 * 70 = 770
1 Totem = 280
2 Totem = 560
3 Totem = 840

This is a 1 spirit (70 damage) difference in DPS over self-casting.

Self-Cast = 70% Effectiveness
Tri Totem = 76.4% Effectiveness

The fractional casting decreases that even further, but without your actual cast speed increases from gear/tree the numbers can't be calculated more precisely.

---

The actual difference in damage is actually 70% vs 73.5%

(Spirits * 35) / (Spirits / [# of totems (3)] / 0.7 * 100) = 73.5% or 24.5% per totem. Only by getting your cast speed so high that 3 totems maintain 50 will the effectiveness change from this because self-casting will end up being more than 1/3 of 50 (at least potentially).
IGN: Tresmere, Mariela, Manyella
Usually online M-F 5-6p EST - Varies on Weekends.
We've been busy. Thank you for the correction. I just finished up some theory crafting in excel and by the nature of excel it also corrected me.

1.05 is a common theme, as in the effectiveness of 3 totems vs 1 player.

3 Totems get 105% of Raging Spirit's 70% Damage Effectiveness.


Some quick numbers from the calcs:
Taking 4 mods into account (Cast Speed, Damage, Duration, + Lightning Damage).
- Lighting damage is just used as it adds a fixed amount to give perspective

# of Raging Spirits Maintained with level 20 gems:
Player - 11.4
1 Totem - 8.0
2 Totem - 16.0
3 Totem - 24.0

Note, I am seeing 24 often before level 20 as sometimes all 3 will cast at the same time causing a 'spike'. My current average is 23.

Baseline DPS with constant spam:
Player - 12,019
1 Totem - 4,207
2 Totem - 8,413
3 Totem - 12,620

Damage added by the Lightning Mod:
Player - 3,467
1 Totem - 1,213
2 Totem - 2,427
3 Totem - 3,640



Tri Totem is a no brainer when comparing to self cast. The game play advantages of mobility / range for the same DPS.

The real question now is Dual Totem worth the 30% DPS loss. I think it is, but I'll need to play around without the Soul Mantle to get a feel for it.
(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
Last edited by MaddBomber83#5049 on Mar 24, 2014, 5:33:47 PM
Duplicate post (double mouse click issue).
(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
Last edited by MaddBomber83#5049 on Mar 24, 2014, 7:27:35 PM
As a note, Q20 Duration/Damage/Speed does nice things as expected.
# of Spirits:
13.0 / 9.1 / 18.1 / 27.2
DPS:
14.8k / 5.2k / 10.4k / 15.6k



50 Raging Spirits looks achievable with the Player and Totems casting (40 without cast speed gear / nodes). Probably give up too much else to even attempt, but fun on paper.




The Minion Nodes essentially double all the dps numbers. (105% Damage and 20% Attack Speed)
(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
Last edited by MaddBomber83#5049 on Mar 24, 2014, 5:40:34 PM
Got the DPS section updated now.

What is the damage like? - (16k - 23k constant DPS supported by 22k variable DPS)
Spoiler
- Please refer to this GGG Reddit Post with information on minion DPS numbers.
- Your primary and very consistent source of damage comes from your Raging Spirits.
- This damage has very high up time and quickly adjusts between AoE and ST.
- 3 Totems keep 24 Raging Spirits up for 23.0k DPS.
- 2 Totems (for Dual Totem or Tri with a Regen) put out 16.1k DPS.
- 1 Totem (for Dual Totem with a Regen) puts out 8.0k DPS.

- Secondary Damage (less reliable) comes from your other minions (Zombie, Skeleton, Spectre).
- Each of 8 Zombies put out 1,643 DPS for 13.1k DPS. They will have ~ 6k life.
- Skeletons (12) put out 781 DPS for a total of 9.4k DPS. They will have ~3k life and do 1k aoe damage when they die. You can typically maintain 2 per second this way.
- Spectres (2) have a wide DPS range (and no firm numbers) depending on the type you are using. I will not include their contribution in my discussion of DPS.
- All together, you get 23k DPS constant from Raging Spirits, and an additional 22k DPS variable from your other minions.

- Please note, auras that add damage are EXTREMELY effective with this build.
- Raging Spirits deal 0.7 effective attacks per second each (17).
- Zombies deal 0.75 effective attacks per second (4).
- Skeletons deal 1.1 effective attacks per second (13).
- You can see how adding 120 damage per hit (220 with minion damage nodes) to 34 hits per second can add 7-8k DPS.

(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
Last edited by MaddBomber83#5049 on Mar 24, 2014, 7:26:37 PM
Duplicate post (double click mouse issue...)
(1.1.x) Cursed General (Tri Totem Raging Spirit / Summoner)
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854534)
General Looting Advice for New Players
(www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/827994)
Last edited by MaddBomber83#5049 on Mar 24, 2014, 7:27:07 PM

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