A Veteran's Proposal for a Self Found League - Poll Included!

Poll here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LVR788Y

14 April poll results to-date (682 respondents):
68% in favour of testing a dedicated SFL
19% not in favour of testing a dedicated SFL
13% maybe in favour, depending on the details

Hello folks, I am a long-time PoE player, with a joining date of August 2011. The purpose of this post is to attempt to contribute constructively to the on-going debate around a self-found league (SFL). For the purposes of this post, I define a SFL as a league in which all items are bound-on-pickup, although this particular definition is not central to the thesis presented below.

I'm well aware of Chris' views on a SFL, so no need to restate them here.

I have played extensively throughout Closed Beta and since then, including Alpha for a time. Historically, I have been a relatively active trader and for my first couple of years of playing I was against any SFL. My opinion has changed and is summarised below:

1. A SFL will stimulate new and renewed interest in playing PoE
I believe that a SFL will attract many new players to PoE and also many retired players back to PoE. I feel strongly that, for very many people, systematised trading (I'm looking at you poe.xyz.is), running maps and grinding from 90-100 eventually becomes a tiresome chore. It certainly has for me and for the vast majority of my friends, who no longer play for this very reason. GGG have the data and will of course have their own views of the stickiness of PoE over time for players, but my conviction is that the introduction of a SFL will see a material net increase in PoE's player base. I believe it makes good business and gaming sense.

2. A SFL preserves the feeling of progress and accomplishment of a new league
For a wizened old player like me, a new league is wonderful. For about a week, maybe a month. After that, the new leagues feel pretty much like the standard league, whereby keeping up with the Jones' requires some combination of time sink, trading and/or RMT. The thought of a SFL, where I am able to continue to compete and compare with the community, but without the drudgery of trading (etc) fills me with great excitement.

3. A SFL encourages players to explore the skill tree
PoE is predominantly about gear. In a SFL, players will have to build around what they find, not what they want to trade for. It will force players to build around their drops. Suddenly people find a decent rare or a mid-tier unique which, in any other league, would rot in their stash or become vendor trash, and they will build around it to develop their own long term progress. This sounds super fun to me. It will also require more ready availability of Orbs of Regret to mitigate the cost of respecs.

4. Playing self-found in a normal league is not the same as a SFL
I do not believe playing self found by yourself on a regular league is anything like playing in a SFL. The reason is that the desire to compete and compare in online games and within online communities is central to most players' enjoyment of playing an online game like PoE. It is my belief that playing self found within a trading league is far less rewarding or fulfilling as a game experience than playing in a proper SFL.

5. Fears of splitting the community are not a sound reason not to implement an otherwise good idea
If this is the fundamental fear of a SFL, then it is the wrong reason not to implement one in my view. A SFL league provides a tangibly different gaming experience, in a similar way that HC provides a different gaming experience to SC. Progress is progress - if SFL is a good idea then it will succeed. I believe GGG are vastly underestimating the potential interest in a SFL, particularly from non-PoE players and retired PoE players. Why is it not worth at least testing a SFL, let's say a month or two into the new 4 month leagues when player interest starts to wane, or between 4 month leagues?


My proposal for the structure of a test SFL is as follows:

A. Use the Ambush league as a base
B. Make any items bind-on-pickup
C. [OPTIONAL] Continue to allow the trading of orbs, gems and maps (although I don't feel strongly about whether orbs should be tradeable or not)
D. [OPTIONAL] Increase base IIR in the league by c.50-100%
E. [OPTIONAL] Increase the drop rates of most orbs, but especially Orbs of Regret by a large amount (10x?) and reduce their relative cost from vendors
F. Run a 2-3 month test SFL league commencing halfway through the current 4 month leagues or between leagues

To the extent there are material development resources at GGG required to implement a SFL (e.g. bind-on-pickup functionality), I would certainly be prepared to contribute significantly - and in excess of any of my prior contributions - to covering the cost of this.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Petrov.

The main reason, which you haven't addressed at all, is money... real money. How is GGG going to profit off this?

You should also clarify... If I pick up a white item and craft it into something godly, is it able to be traded? If so, you're not playing in a SFL. You're playing in a white or trash league with better orb drops.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

The main reason, which you haven't addressed at all, is money... real money. How is GGG going to profit off this?

I think that's covered in the first point, no? An expansion of the active player base, ergo, etc etc.

Changed definition to include white items - you raise a good point re whites.

P.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

The main reason, which you haven't addressed at all, is money... real money. How is GGG going to profit off this?

You should also clarify... If I pick up a white item and craft it into something godly, is it able to be traded? If so, you're not playing in a SFL. You're playing in a white or trash league with better orb drops.

The same way they profit with everything else. I play solo almost always and I bought some of those shiny effects, cause I like them. I wouldn't buy them just for other people to see.


About SFL... I really love the idea. I'm so disappointed with the trading simulator that PoE has become.

Eliminate C, and the regret orb part of E. I'll PM you later though

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

The main reason, which you haven't addressed at all, is money... real money. How is GGG going to profit off this?

You never bought stash tabs, even though you play self-found? Dedicated self-found players need as much stash tabs as big traders, for all the reroling, recipes, crafting, etc.. In fact big traders empty (cycle) their tabs much faster than self-found players, who hold onto items for a long time. Contrary, traders liquidate their items into 'cash' (orbs with a much smaller inventory footprint), because they can buy anything at any time.

Remove "C". No trading period. "C" goes against the very definition of self-found.
Decrease/remove "D" and "E". They really aren't needed.

What is needed in such a league is the tightening of crafting mod ranges on items per Ilvl requirement. There is just too much variation currently to make crafting more than a long odds crap shoot. When I have an Ilvl 50+ item and I'm rolling Ilvl 1-10 mods on it there is an issue. It gets even worse when that item is Ilvl 70+.

Include the option for any player in the SFL to move to standard at any given point of time.

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LSN wrote:

Include the option for any player in the SFL to move to standard at any given point of time.

I'm not even a fan of SFL, but this is an outright no

I would love to see this idea being actually implemented. A 1 month test self found league with a set of rules and limitations just to give it a shot would be enough from GGG - if it works out, there is no reason not to have one. Just like the good old 1 month races. When it finishes, it gets wiped out. GGG would be able to change things on-the-go for it, and players would be aware of the testing purposes of the league - and I believe such a league would find great support. Talking about it is one thing, bringing it up for people to get an actual feeling of it is another.


I will just share some of my thoughts here. Consider them unrefined suggestions to be improved upon or dismissed.



The trade option between players should simply be eliminated completely in a self found league.

Partying should definitely be available. It makes for a big part of the game, it doesn't need to be exclusively solo-self-found.

Permanent allocation as default option, with no other options available in parties.
Item still permanently allocated to player upon dropping it from inventory, if player leaves instance or logs out, item is permanently deleted, invisible, and/or expires together with the instance to prevent confusion - there are no trading options available whatsoever (drop the item, leave, other player picks up).

Increase drop chances for all orbs. What use do I have off a single exalted which might drop every 50 hours of play? I need to be able to craft my gear - and in order to keep the current system with versatility and RNG at crafting, I need way, way more currency. Depending on what you drop is cool and everything, but if I want to min-max my character, relying on drops exclusively isn't quite entertaining.

Ambush league as the template is a wonderful idea. The strongboxes make for awesome "treasure goblins" - and every game of this kind should have them.

Self found league should not include permanent character death - and this also means everything in it remains in it. It would be nonsense to allow cross-league mixing with a heavily specialized league such as SFL.