My Idea on how to improve game - FIX CRAFTING
" I can't speak for the OP, so I'm just going to speak for myself : Vendor recipes invoke in me vast amounts of nerd rage. It's a silly band-aid fix for a major problem in the crafting system and the worst thing about it is that it undermines the currency system entirely. The currency system that was supposed to make sure that no player ever got a drop that was "useless"; so much so that junk items vendored for portions of a wisdom scroll. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55102/ Such a long and considered approach to designing a game economy can be found here, as explained by Chris himself. Of course as everyone knows, GGG screwed the pooch when it comes to the utility factor of item currencies. People rightly bring this up time after time after time. GGG's solution? Ignore the valid concerns of the playerbase, insert deterministic vendor recipes, AND IN THE PROCESS UNDERMINE EVERYTHING THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM WAS SUPPOSED TO ACHIEVE IN THE FIRST PLACE. And this stupidity shows absolutely no sign of abating.  |
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I cannot agree to people saying garbage affixes need to go.
In every game like PoE, the motivation for grinding comes from the feeling of "reward" and "progress". You need garbage affixes/items to make the rare precious items feel rewarding. I've played a ton of ARPGs and a ton of user-made mods which improved gear quality. The effect of those mods was mostly: Every single item is now kinda valuable if you play the right build for it. So drop luck wasn't based on the item anymore, it was based on your build. That's just wrong. You need these garbage affixes. The problem is: in PoE there's too much trash and too few ok items. To me, the only solution in PoE would be better scaling of white item base damage/armor numbers. Make a Lvl 70 sword not 40-70 damage, but 140-170. On the other hand, cut the damage affixes in half, "120% ipd" to "60% ipd" etc. The godlike weapon would still be: *highest possible %ipd *highest possible flat pd *highest possible attacks speed roll *highest possible hybrid %ipd ...but the items would not be so brutally devided in "99,99% utter garbage", "0,009% maybe I can sell this" and "0,001% this is actually pretty good". Same for armor. Instead of needing +350 armor, +150% armor to reach 2000 protection, make a lvl65 armor have a value of 600-900 armor and cut the affixes. The affix/gear system in PoE is just absurd. 3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519 Last edited by Peterlerock#5171 on Feb 5, 2014, 5:31:27 AM
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" Well on the first note I agree in absolute totality. Open the spoiler if you want to see the math behind it. For everyone else I'll just cut to the chase. Good drops don't happen.
Spoiler
as you can see here , this is a pretty crappy ring I alched. Please take not of the affix levels it has. As this is important to us. Also note that this ring is iLvL 69. Right so lets get down to math. Rings can have a total of 36 affixes ( If my data is correct :P). Of the 36 different possible affixes I rolled a grand total of 5. When you alch an item you can get 4 , 5 or 6 affixes. But we'll disregard that for now. Notice you can roll 12 prefixes on a ring. That is 12!/(3!(12-3)!) combinations or 220 different combinations. Yes if you want 3 specific prefixes and if you alch 220 rings , you will get (statistically of course) that combination of 3 prefixes only once. I hope this doesn't boggle you'r mind we haven't reached the scary bit yet. There is 23 suffixes. You can roll 3. So that is 23!/(3!(23-3)!) combinations or 1 771 different combinations. Yes my math is correct ( I'm pretty sure it is). Everyone wants 3 resistance rolls on their rings. Well , alch 1 771 rings and statistacally you'll get 1. Yes one , ONE , only one. Statiscally speaking ofcourse. Pretty sure GGG changed some number to make certain rolls more likely then others , but actually we don't know so lets presume as is. Ok , this is pretty big numbers. We'll now it will start to get REAL , REAL BAD. Hold on to your pants and get a new pair of underwear. To get 6 specific affixes you need to roll 1771x220= 389 620 alchs and rings. (To get this certain combination.)
Spoiler
Not includig that you can roll 1prefix and 3 suffix , 2 prefix and 2 suffix , 3 prefix and 1 suffix (for alch rolls with 4 affixes). And so on and so forth. I'm not including this because then i'll have to use bigger calculators then the one I'm using(my calculator can do the math just not display it, too many digits if you havent figured out what i'm pointing at yet). And this is just a short demonstration.
Moving on. We'll be using my ring as an example. Posting it a second time for clarification. Remember it's ilvl 69 22% increased elemental damage with weapons is a level 15 (lvl 2 for increased elemental damage with weapons )prefix out of a possible 3. +11 to all attributes is a level 22 (lvl 3 for all attributes) suffix out of a possible 7. 1-2 added cold damage is lvl 1 (lvl 1 for added cold damage) prefix out of a possible 8. +31% added fire resistance is lvl 50 ( lvl 5 for added fire res) suffix out of a possible 6. 1% physical damage as life is a lvl 9 ( lvl 2 for life leech form physical ) prefix out of a possible 2. This ring could have had 3x7x8x6x2= 2016 different combinations of affix level for this specific affixes. Assuuming lvl 1 mods can get rolled on a lvl 69 item (WHICH IT DID). To end , if you want this ring with this mods you'll need 785 473 920 orbs of alchemy. This doesn't even include the different values you can roll , so this is where I stop. I thin I have proven my point. Someone at GGG needs to learn math.... " I think this will break the game , it's a good idea but it won't work with our currently up and running system. Changing the current system will break the game. So we need to improve the current system. My idea on how to improve the system is to limit what rolls you can get on certain iLvL items. It not only is a quick and easy fix but the whole game won't have to be changed around the base stats. They should just limit items of example iLvL 78 not to be possible to roll affixes lower then lvl 68. AND BAM , stronger weapons will drop. WE can always change the lvl difference from 10 to maybe 15 to give a wider variance. But at a 10 lvl difference we would still have a well over a few ten thousand different combinations you can roll on an item. If someone were to request it I would gladly do the math :D. |
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" Good question and I thought about it the whole day. And I came up with a answer. But I don't think it's quite a polished one as of yet. I think they should change the type of roll on an item to give certain amount of alteration shards to certain lvls of rolls to give a certain amount of alteration shards for instance. Getting a max roll of any roll should give you a higher reward. Maybe a chaos ;). Just joking , but ye. At this point in time it's just as effecient to go max iir on my lvl 80 templar and do normal ledge then it is to do docks as example. Because it only matter what type of rolls you get and not the level. I bet you guys havent thought of it that way :D. Well guys , see you all ta act 1 normal on the ledge. I bet this will casue a stir ;D. |
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You'll run out of scrolls. Trust me.
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^- Bump for another non RNG rage idear -^
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" This would not be a solution. It limits the "better items" even more to those you can regularly afford Lvl 75-78 maps... 3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
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" I think it's fine to reward players with persistence. This will also change the current goal of farming maps to get currency to buy better gear to farm maps even faster to actually getting to the end game. It would be a clear purpose and a clear goal for every player. Would be like a pot of gold at the end of a long hard and bumpy rainbow :P You'll also be less currency dependent. Less farming for currency to buy some other lucky guys drops to getting currency and hopefully still getting good gear yourself. Even if it's a woppig 10 LvL difference btween iLvL and possible affixes that can roll. It would still be pretty hard to actually get those good items. Here is an example for a 2h axe with perfect rolls ( What would be perfect in my opinion. ) Well my solution hits a snag right here. So I'm changing my first suggestion to 20 lvl difference. Just for fun I'll add 10 level difference as well.
Spoiler
First up is 20 Lvl difference between iLvL and minimum mod.Mods I want is Flaring , Tyrannical and Emperors. Then Prefixes (11 of them) Local added physical dmg , 2 affixes (between lvl 78 and 58). Life Leech from Physical Dmg , 1 affix Mana Leech from Physical Dmg , 1 affix Local added cold dmg , 2 affixes ... Local added fire dmg , 2 affixes ... Local added lightning dmg , 2 affixes ... Local Physical dmg , 2 affixes ... Local Physical dmg and accuracy , 2 affixes ... Local Socketed Gem Level + , 1 affix Local Socketed Meelee Gem Level +, 1 affix Weapon elemental dmg , 1 affix To get those 3 affixes its a (11!/(3!(11-3!)))*2*1*1*2*2*2*2*2*1*1*1= 10 560 to 1 chance. To get those 3 affixes with 10 level gap (11!/(3!(11-3)!))= 165 ( This is kinda high I guess) Suffixes (17 of them) Additional Dexterity , 2 affixes between lvl 78 and 58. Additional Strength , 2 affixes ... Chaos Resistance + , 1 affix ... Cold Resistance + , 2 affixes... Fire Resistance + , 2 affixes... Lightning Resistance + , 2 affixes Base stun Duration , none (good thing imo) Base stun Reduction , none (good thing imo) Life Gain Per target , none (good thing imo) Life Gain on Enemy Death , none (good thing imo) Light Radius + accuracy , none ( Who stacks this anyway ? ) Local accuracy rating , 2 affixes Local atack speed , 3 affixes Local attribute requirments - , 1 affix Global Crit chance , 1 affixes Mana Gained on enemy death , none Weapon only crit , 1 affix. So then its (11!/(3!(11-3)!)*2*2*1*2*2*2*2*3*1*1*1 = 31 680 to 1 (for 20 lvl difference) and (11!/(3!(11-3)!)*2*2*2*2*2= 5 280 to 1 (for 10 lvl difference ) Well that sums it up. good weapons will drop far more often ( maybe too often) But it's a start. At least not as improbable as it is at this moment. Guys , keep the suggestion coming as well as negative remarks/doubts. If it's to good to be true it usually is. So keep them coming. |
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Hameless Bump .
Need more opinion and/or constructive criticism. Think this might work if we fine tune it that is. |
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I think that if this game had real crafting, it would be the perfect ARPG.
The point of ARPGs is to progress through content by looting gear upgrades, to progress into more difficult content and loot better upgrades, and so on until you clear all the content or find all the upgrades. When you don't find upgrades, you would use (deterministic and arbitrarily expensive) crafting to help you progress. But instead we got totally random crafting, that can ruin you and is more often then not totally not helping you to progress. And when you hit the wall, trading is presented as an easy solution. But trading requires you not to waste orbs on crafting in the first place. So, crafting is for stoopids and SF masochists... With crafting being so damn wasteful, its normal that players buy crafting gear from organized mapping parties, because you would be insane to waste all that orbs on something that is not ilvl 78+. So instead of a natural progression through difficulty and gear, people hoard orbs to buy gear or to craft that one high ilvl item, which they didn't loot themselves - because they couldn't get to it. It's an ironic mechanic, that exists only to boost trading. The need for an economy will always hold back the potential of PoE as an ARPG. Crafting will always be shyt, don't even hope for anything better, because GGG is obsessed with forcing the economy onto players. GGG wants trading to be the #1 solution for all your (artificially created) problems. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Feb 9, 2014, 5:26:34 AM
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