Tanking definition

With 20 aa, mom on a 1k available pool, 300 mana regen, 250 life regen, 4k armor, 26% block, 8% evade, 5k life i feel pretty tanky. Tanky as in I can pretty much afk in 72 maps. I can afk to kole. Very rarely am im not face tanking content as a caster. The problem with aa and mom, is once you find content that you can't tank your mana pool dries up and you start taking more damage. It usually catches me off gaurd.

Edit: forgot to add a typical cwdt setup.

And to the guy saying aa =< 4k life. Really not that hard to get over 5k life/ 250 regen with 3500 mana/ 300 regen. I am doing it with self found gear and about 20 chaos in purchased gear on nem.

An MoM build with 4k life might as well have 6k life.[/quote]

i have yet to see an mom build with 4k life first off, since most gear and extra passive points go to mana and mana regen. And secondly a mom build with 4k life would barely have any mana left to tank a single spike or barrage of hits. MOM builds i have seen have very little mana available actually.
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ZiggyD's EK Scion has like 5k life and runs AA MoM. Look it up on youtube.

my lvl 70 mom/aa char has like 3k hp and 1k mana left with crap like as gear...

reaching higher than 4k life at lvl 80 with proper gear and tons of mana/mana regen isnt that hard

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tinko92 wrote:

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SilentOppressor wrote:

For me tanking is being able to take absurd amounts of damage no matter how it's done. 95% evasion is just as tanky as X000 life 1X000 armor in my eyes.

But, it's luck based, unreliable, especially in 90+ levels.

Evasion isn't luck based. It's more reliable than block, and block is currently the second best defensive mechanic in the game (behind life). If the best life item in the game (Kaom's) didn't usually require a 2-hander to have optimal offense, you'd see way more life-block builds (it doesn't help that the best block helm in the game disables your chest).

In fact, the second roll on crits makes evasion less susceptible to crit one-shots than armor.

Artic Armor + IR + Grace + MOM + EB +4+k life can let you tank most of the stuff, EXCEPT:

1) Maze Vaal smash (crit)
2) Resident/Palace Dom Touch of God (crit)
3) Temple piety with hard mods (AA, MOM, EB does jack shit vs high amount of elemental dmg)
4) Crematorium with hard mods (ok since you have Artic armor perhaps this is ok)
5) Torture Chamber boss beam (it's a dot, you can't block it, you can only break line of sight or out leech it)
6) Shrine Piety (elemental damage)

These are just a few that will eat you alive.


Even an Aegis tank will have problem with 1, 2, 5 of above.

At the very minimum, if a build can't afk vs bosses that are not designed to 1 shot, then it's not tank, and should not be called a tank.

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TheTenthDoc wrote:

Evasion isn't luck based. It's more reliable than block, and block is currently the second best defensive mechanic in the game (behind life). In fact, if the best life item in the game (Kaom's) didn't usually require a 2-hander to have optimal offense, you'd see way more life-block builds.

In fact, the second roll on crits makes evasion less susceptible to crit one-shots than armor.

Explain to me how it's not luck based?

Block is luck based to, but yes, evasion is more reliable.
The thing is, block can be used with armour and evasion, but high armour and high block wins over high evasion and high block.

Why? Because when you do get hit with evasion, you take hilarious amount of damage from physical attacks and spells.

You can't have spell evade that high as spell block.

The only advantage of evasion builds is that they can take tons of elemental attacks, and frankly, they are rare.


That's true about Kaom's, but I can't see how is it relevant here.


Second roll on crits? What do you mean by that?

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biralo wrote:

At the very minimum, if a build can't afk vs bosses that are not designed to 1 shot, then it's not tank, and should not be called a tank.

What are you, an Aegis fanboy?

The day will come when Aegis Aurora gets it's nerf, I'll be first in line to salute that decision, the melee-shield Aegis domination is ridiculous and utterly imbalanced.

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tinko92 wrote:

What are you, an Aegis fanboy?

The day will come when Aegis Aurora gets it's nerf, I'll be first in line to salute that decision, the melee-shield Aegis domination is ridiculous and utterly imbalanced.

Yes I am, but starting to get sick of it due to low dps.

Well I can always go for a build using legacy kaoms ;-)

But until it's nerfed, or a better tanking build with MUCH higher dps potential is found, I will continue to ride the high =)

Currently lvl 92 (81% to 93)

Incinerate tank build

AA
MoM
78% Block
56% Spell Block
3478 Life
1179 Mana (after reservations)

Have no problem soloing all maps (depending on rolls of course)

There are some bosses that I still cannot solo, including 78 dom.

If you dont classify that as tanky...then I don't know what to tell ya...

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tinko92 wrote:

"

TheTenthDoc wrote:

Evasion isn't luck based. It's more reliable than block, and block is currently the second best defensive mechanic in the game (behind life). In fact, if the best life item in the game (Kaom's) didn't usually require a 2-hander to have optimal offense, you'd see way more life-block builds.

In fact, the second roll on crits makes evasion less susceptible to crit one-shots than armor.

Explain to me how it's not luck based?

Block is luck based to, but yes, evasion is more reliable.
The thing is, block can be used with armour and evasion, but high armour and high block wins over high evasion and high block.

Why? Because when you do get hit with evasion, you take hilarious amount of damage from physical attacks and spells.

You can't have spell evade that high as spell block.

The only advantage of evasion builds is that they can take tons of elemental attacks, and frankly, they are rare.


That's true about Kaom's, but I can't see how is it relevant here.


Second roll on crits? What do you mean by that?

Block is just as good with evasion as it is with armor (the exception being a broken unique).

Evasion is entropy-based, NOT random. If you have 80% chance to evade, you will be hit 1 out of 5 attacks, period.

From the mechanics thread: "If an incoming critical strike succeeds its hit roll, a second independent hit roll is performed to determine if the critical is evaded or not. If this roll succeeds, a critical strike is scored. If it fails, the attack still hits, but only for regular damage."

Basically, if an attack crits you can make it a non-crit with an evasion roll, while armor characters just get shit out of luck since critical hits obliterate armor efficiency.

Physical attacks and spells that cause "a hilarious amount of damage" do plenty of damage to everyone thanks to the pretty pathetic mitigation armor offers large hits (which is why the plated affix does jack shit, but the physical resist map mod does a lot).