Be careful what you ask for: Gear progression and power creep

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Garr0t wrote:

The forum meta appears to be focusing on itemization/gearing of late.

Your post is very sensible, and I agree with it.

What I don't agree with is your conclusion that the quoted line above is true.

What most of us find issue with is path of extreme trading, and insane RNG. It just needs to be normalized a little.

What I personally want, is that if I spend enough time working towards something, I want to see a guaranteed result and not be at the mercy of RNG.

The simplest example I can give is for example 6-Linking something. Say I decide to grind for two months straight (assuming I don't die), just accumulate my currency, sell all my items that I find, trade with others until my brain explodes. Then after 2 months, I have enough currency to get 3K fusing orbs. So I trade for another week and buy all the fusings with what other 'lottery' orbs I have. I can then spend all of that 3K fusings, and not get my 6L. That just shouldn't happen, c'mon.

According to that community log, it takes an average of 150 fusings to get a 5link, and average of like 900 fusings to get a 6link. But with RNG it could be 1 fusing or 10K fusings. What needs to happen is alternative to the RNG bullshit. Keep things as they are, so those who like to gamble, can gamble, those who like to grind their ass off if it means a guaranteed result, can get that too.

150 fusings on average to get 5L? Add a vendor recipe that if u trade in 5/6 socket item and 300 fusings, you get your item 5Linked, guaranteed. 900 fusings for 6 link? Add a vendor recipe for 6socket + 1500 fusings and u get your 6 link guaranteed.

Things like that is what needs to happen. More options to get desired gear, not necessarily easier to obtain gear.

The same can be applied to crafting items (although they really fucked up the eternal orb, that should have been a common item so that it actually encourages people to spend 100s of orbs that they have in their stashes).

What's even worse about the whole RNG thing, is that you can not only spend your whole bank trying to craft an item, but on top of that, you can end up with far WORSE item than you started with.

I would be willing to throw few fusings on my 5Link chest every once in a while, if I don't get lucky, no matter. But I'm not willing to spend hundreds, or even thousands of fusings on my 5Link just to end up with a 2 link lol.

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tienbasse wrote:

Let's face it: the goal of hack&slash games is to become a powerhouse in endgame, to crush/explode/disintegrate even the hardest monsters (pick your choose).
It's not about balance, it's about the fun of feeling so powerful and relatively invincible.

As a racer and altoholic, I must disagree with you on this point. It might be your goal, but it is hardly the goal.

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Skivverus wrote:

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tienbasse wrote:

Let's face it: the goal of hack&slash games is to become a powerhouse in endgame, to crush/explode/disintegrate even the hardest monsters (pick your choose).
It's not about balance, it's about the fun of feeling so powerful and relatively invincible.

As a racer and altoholic, I must disagree with you on this point. It might be your goal, but it is hardly the goal.

I'm pretty sure you are a minority in that regard.

P.S. Seriously you are a Diamond Supporter and your highest level is 62 on Standard? No pun intended, but what motivates you to play/keep remaking new characters? Do you not get attached to any one character...even for a week?

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Melkrow wrote:

what motivates you to play/keep remaking new characters? Do you not get attached to any one character...even for a week?

I am also one of those that doesn't really feel the need to become 'all powerful' level 100 god of the arena.

I grow attached to build concepts, not necessarily the character itself. The challenge/enjoyment I get out of the game comes from seeing how far the build progresses in the game before I hit a hard skill/gear check. At that point, I reassess the build to determine viability for the next 20 levels or so. If I figure it is just going to be more of the same (the 'grind') I move onto another character with a new build idea.

Sometimes a particular piece of gear will trigger a whole build concept, sometimes a particular build would require very specific gear. If I don't have the gear on hand, I don't worry. I just file that build away for when I do find the item(s) I need to enable the build.

Sometimes I run a build that progresses much farther than another character, and an item drop from that character can be used by the one that is stuck in progression. That stimulates me to return to that character to see how much farther I can progress now that I have that modifier/stat that was previously limiting me. And then maybe that character drops an item for yet another build...

And so on.

Everything said in the OP is true, but also completely irrelevant in a game that introduces new leagues every 4 months.

League resets are the ultimate sink, and leave behind any and all concerns about power creep and balance.

The forum meta will always revolve around itemization because PoE is for better or worse an item-centric game: The distribution of player power is skewed very heavily towards items, and the passive tree is relegated to being an addendum. I'll quote an older post I made:

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ephetat wrote:

I agree with you but I would add that the devaluation is catalyzed by one other factor: universality of good Rares (so much for 'deepest item system in any ARPG', as much as I love this game), and subsequently there being too much emphasis on items in general. Ideally I would have much more "reliable power" in the passive tree (like +general damage, +resists, +life) and more "situational power" ([why not?] thorns, basic procs, +specific damage, proximity-based bonuses, status-based bonuses, movement-based bonuses etc.) on items. But maybe this is a half-assed idea (some care would be required to ensure that not every tree ends up the same), I don't know.

We'd certainly be circlejerking if we made yet another reference to the affix philosophy thread now, but I do view it as an issue that what makes good weapons and good armor are essentially the same item mods for everyone. Since everyone wants the same items, items are easily and universally valued. Sadly this is the one issue in the game that I intuit will not be getting any attention down the road -- GGG seems to stand by its affix philosophy by more or less taking it for granted.

The cruelly random nature of the item hunt undermines the feeling of player agency (due to the passive tree's general insignificance, by around mid-game there's no real sense of progress left simply through leveling up) and leads to reactionary suggestions as you describe.

The item focus of PoE is such that it extends to the most basic actions the player can take. PoE promises and posseses the richest character-building toolbox in ARPG history (IMO), but expects the player to work for just the chance to enjoy it fully, through mechanics like sockets, socket colors, links, and gems. Drop-only gems are a thing in this game.

I would not expect this forum landscape to change, and certainly I would hold the game design responsible for it.