ggg needs to take steps to make spells more approachable

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

also, about being "axe/mace/sword" resistant - that is faulty. The difficulty is in needing to be in the monsters face to USE those weapons (and ST isn't so great in the late game) so by definition there is a downside to using those weapons that isn't needed to be stated by having a "axe resistance".

not that I am opposed to such a property if they chose to include it, but I feel it is redundant and most likely an unneeded/unjustified burden on the melee users.

"

ciel289 wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

also, about being "axe/mace/sword" resistant - that is faulty. The difficulty is in needing to be in the monsters face to USE those weapons (and ST isn't so great in the late game) so by definition there is a downside to using those weapons that isn't needed to be stated by having a "axe resistance".

not that I am opposed to such a property if they chose to include it, but I feel it is redundant and most likely an unneeded/unjustified burden on the melee users.

i never meant that i think its a good idea to use a resi like that (in the most fight a caster that runs solo is forces into many melee situations i.e. leap slaming bosses/monsters,flicker strike,charging/very fast enemys or monsters that you can only dmg in "melee" range when there shield is up there is quite alot of those monsters/boss) white monster area at no point in the game a real threat,if you are atleast a bit carefull (doesnt matter if caster/melee or whatever)

it was the best way to try to make him understand that his "use a diffrent spell that you arent skilled into) is kinda wrong(even less builds would be viable like that)

the options with summons/totems etc that you mentioned are there i wont deny that,but they need passiv investment to do atleast ok in endgame maps,which limits the already significant lower dmg of spells even further and these options are there for any build not just spellusers

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

"

ciel289 wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

also, about being "axe/mace/sword" resistant - that is faulty. The difficulty is in needing to be in the monsters face to USE those weapons (and ST isn't so great in the late game) so by definition there is a downside to using those weapons that isn't needed to be stated by having a "axe resistance".

not that I am opposed to such a property if they chose to include it, but I feel it is redundant and most likely an unneeded/unjustified burden on the melee users.

i never meant that i think its a good idea to use a resi like that (in the most fight a caster that runs solo is forces into many melee situations i.e. leap slaming bosses/monsters,flicker strike,charging/very fast enemys or monsters that you can only dmg in "melee" range when there shield is up there is quite alot of those monsters/boss) white monster area at no point in the game a real threat,if you are atleast a bit carefull (doesnt matter if caster/melee or whatever)

it was the best way to try to make him understand that his "use a diffrent spell that you arent skilled into) is kinda wrong(even less builds would be viable like that)

the options with summons/totems etc that you mentioned are there i wont deny that,but they need passiv investment to do atleast ok in endgame maps,which limits the already significant lower dmg of spells even further and these options are there for any build not just spellusers

Thanks for the clarification!

What are your thoughts on.. Christ I forgot the name.. the passive that allows you to do more damage with one type of spell after using another? So, shoot the shitty fireball that you haven't specced for and then use cold? I thought that was an excellent addition and more passives along those lines would be great.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

also spells have exactly one benefit over melee , ranged , they don't need accuracy.


4 - 5 accuracy nodes or a dex based crit character can easily get 90% accuracy

this is why more and more resolute builds are switching over to abysses and crit, crit is huuuge.


crit is the face roll stat for any build in the game , its the difference between a 20k damage ceiling and a 200k damage ceiling.

"

JahIthBer89 wrote:

IMO it's more of a physical vs elemental thing than it is spells vs attacks.

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

also spells have exactly one benefit over melee , ranged , they don't need accuracy.


4 - 5 accuracy nodes or a dex based crit character can easily get 90% accuracy

this is why more and more resolute builds are switching over to abysses and crit, crit is huuuge.


crit is the face roll stat for any build in the game , its the difference between a 20k damage ceiling and a 200k damage ceiling.

And where on the passive tree might I find a whole metric crapton of chance to crit or chance to crit with spell nodes? Oh, up the caster area, you say...

What about support gems that increase both chance to crit and crit multiplier, what stat is associated with those? Oh, the same one that can offer a good deal of other useful benefit to a toon with, say, a high mana pool and potentially huge regen factor, you say...



But caster builds are trash, right? Spells blow, right?

I deny the premise of the initial post. I reiterate the statement that player choice, and the consequence thereof, is not the responsibility of GGG.

Sure, you can decide to build an Ice Spear/FP + LMP + Cold Pen + Crit chance + Crit Multi Marauder and power it with Blood Magic, and I have no doubt that it could perform.

But, starting from the Witch or Shadow base and going with ES/EV for protection with as high an Arctic Armor as you can maintain while running without noticeable mana degen, taking advantage of powerful and accessible aura nodes for other boosts (Haste + Discipline = so OP), and maximizing your ability to apply elemental effects to EVERY.MOB.IN.THE.GAME. will make your enjoyment of spell usage far greater.

That you can also use unlinked sockets to provide even nominal mob distraction is a total bonus. 2L Spell Totem + Summon Skeletons = totally OP to the point of content trivialization, TBH, without any passive investment, if all you are looking for is initial engagement meatshield and occasional "Whoa, too hot" because you got cocky, 4L in +2 minion hat with minion support gems for tankier skeles with high aggro rating and stop whining about being targeted as a caster. Even unlinked Decoy Totem placed prior to engagement and maintained as needed works wonders, and you should almost be ashamed not to use one if you have no other aggro draw.

Crit is the DPS equalizer for elemental/ranged, so the DPS question is moot. INB4 "but melee can get crit too!!!11one1!" Yes, they can, but with nowhere near the same level of + % chance and/or + % multiplier, nor with the same advantages from application of elemental status effects (frozen mobs can't attack, chilled mobs attack/move more slowly, shocked stacks to increase incoming damage, ignition for DoT while you kite - you do kite as a caster, please, for the love of all that is holy, you do kite, right?).

There is so much spell synergy in the tree, you just have to make the right choices to take advantage of it.

"

Vexidious wrote:

"

JahIthBer89 wrote:

IMO it's more of a physical vs elemental thing than it is spells vs attacks.

That's part of it. The other part is that spells can't life leech from gear, meaning that every caster basically requires an extra socket in their attack chain.

The fix is really simple, though:

1) Reduce elemental resists a bit. Maybe add physical resists to a few mobs.
2) Allow "leech from elemental damage" mods to appear on items.

Done. Spells fixed. I'll avoid holding my breath.

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

also spells have exactly one benefit over melee , ranged , they don't need accuracy.


4 - 5 accuracy nodes or a dex based crit character can easily get 90% accuracy

this is why more and more resolute builds are switching over to abysses and crit, crit is huuuge.


crit is the face roll stat for any build in the game , its the difference between a 20k damage ceiling and a 200k damage ceiling.

And where on the passive tree might I find a whole metric crapton of chance to crit or chance to crit with spell nodes? Oh, up the caster area, you say...

What about support gems that increase both chance to crit and crit multiplier, what stat is associated with those? Oh, the same one that can offer a good deal of other useful benefit to a toon with, say, a high mana pool and potentially huge regen factor, you say...



But caster builds are trash, right? Spells blow, right?

I deny the premise of the initial post. I reiterate the statement that player choice, and the consequence thereof, is not the responsibility of GGG.

Sure, you can decide to build an Ice Spear/FP + LMP + Cold Pen + Crit chance + Crit Multi Marauder and power it with Blood Magic, and I have no doubt that it could perform.

But, starting from the Witch or Shadow base and going with ES/EV for protection with as high an Arctic Armor as you can maintain while running without noticeable mana degen, taking advantage of powerful and accessible aura nodes for other boosts (Haste + Discipline = so OP), and maximizing your ability to apply elemental effects to EVERY.MOB.IN.THE.GAME. will make your enjoyment of spell usage far greater.

That you can also use unlinked sockets to provide even nominal mob distraction is a total bonus. 2L Spell Totem + Summon Skeletons = totally OP to the point of content trivialization, TBH, without any passive investment, if all you are looking for is initial engagement meatshield and occasional "Whoa, too hot" because you got cocky, 4L in +2 minion hat with minion support gems for tankier skeles with high aggro rating and stop whining about being targeted as a caster. Even unlinked Decoy Totem placed prior to engagement and maintained as needed works wonders, and you should almost be ashamed not to use one if you have no other aggro draw.

Crit is the DPS equalizer for elemental/ranged, so the DPS question is moot. INB4 "but melee can get crit too!!!11one1!" Yes, they can, but with nowhere near the same level of + % chance and/or + % multiplier, nor with the same advantages from application of elemental status effects (frozen mobs can't attack, chilled mobs attack/move more slowly, shocked stacks to increase incoming damage, ignition for DoT while you kite - you do kite as a caster, please, for the love of all that is holy, you do kite, right?).

There is so much spell synergy in the tree, you just have to make the right choices to take advantage of it.

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

also spells have exactly one benefit over melee , ranged , they don't need accuracy.


4 - 5 accuracy nodes or a dex based crit character can easily get 90% accuracy

this is why more and more resolute builds are switching over to abysses and crit, crit is huuuge.


crit is the face roll stat for any build in the game , its the difference between a 20k damage ceiling and a 200k damage ceiling.

And where on the passive tree might I find a whole metric crapton of chance to crit or chance to crit with spell nodes? Oh, up the caster area, you say...

What about support gems that increase both chance to crit and crit multiplier, what stat is associated with those? Oh, the same one that can offer a good deal of other useful benefit to a toon with, say, a high mana pool and potentially huge regen factor, you say...



But caster builds are trash, right? Spells blow, right?

I deny the premise of the initial post. I reiterate the statement that player choice, and the consequence thereof, is not the responsibility of GGG.

Sure, you can decide to build an Ice Spear/FP + LMP + Cold Pen + Crit chance + Crit Multi Marauder and power it with Blood Magic, and I have no doubt that it could perform.

But, starting from the Witch or Shadow base and going with ES/EV for protection with as high an Arctic Armor as you can maintain while running without noticeable mana degen, taking advantage of powerful and accessible aura nodes for other boosts (Haste + Discipline = so OP), and maximizing your ability to apply elemental effects to EVERY.MOB.IN.THE.GAME. will make your enjoyment of spell usage far greater.

That you can also use unlinked sockets to provide even nominal mob distraction is a total bonus. 2L Spell Totem + Summon Skeletons = totally OP to the point of content trivialization, TBH, without any passive investment, if all you are looking for is initial engagement meatshield and occasional "Whoa, too hot" because you got cocky, 4L in +2 minion hat with minion support gems for tankier skeles with high aggro rating and stop whining about being targeted as a caster. Even unlinked Decoy Totem placed prior to engagement and maintained as needed works wonders, and you should almost be ashamed not to use one if you have no other aggro draw.

Crit is the DPS equalizer for elemental/ranged, so the DPS question is moot. INB4 "but melee can get crit too!!!11one1!" Yes, they can, but with nowhere near the same level of + % chance and/or + % multiplier, nor with the same advantages from application of elemental status effects (frozen mobs can't attack, chilled mobs attack/move more slowly, shocked stacks to increase incoming damage, ignition for DoT while you kite - you do kite as a caster, please, for the love of all that is holy, you do kite, right?).

There is so much spell synergy in the tree, you just have to make the right choices to take advantage of it.