[1.0.2] Tri Element Trapper

"

Daltonium239 wrote:

I really like your build but I think it could be a bit better with Scion so I took your build and adapted it. By starting with Scion I was able to get 32% extra life, 40% extra mana regen, 24% more mana, and a bit more strength. To get all that I had to spec out of elemental damage nodes and the aura nodes since you didn't really seem to be utilizing auras much and I got alot more mana from Scion area.
Here's my Version.
I'm only telling you this because I would like to hear your opinion on it since it is your build and you have played it, you are more apt to know if my changes are good or not before I play with them.

hey you added an extra node in your build ill just take that out and do a overview of the builds here:

Str---124:::140
Dex---173:::170
Int---223:::210
Inc Mana---48:::72
Inc Mana Regen---100:::140
inc Spell Dmg---24:::0
Inc Life---200:::224
Inc Ele Dmg---15:::0
Crit Chance---165:::185


if its not on here i didn't think it was important or was the same

the 23 int more in the Shadow is 11 mana and 4% more ES
the 16 str more in Scion is 8 life
so those are the stat tradeoffs

TL:DR
24%inc mana , 40% inc mana Regen, 24% inc life, -24% spell dmg , -15% ele dmg, 20% Crit Chance


so its pretty much just a tradeoff of dmg (39% more for you fire light ice traps, 24 for bear) for more mana life and mana regen...

and 2 things I noticed
1 is that we can just trade the 3 aura nodes for the 24% life nodes near the shadow tree if needed

and 2 the 16 life mana node we got in the shadow does seem like its not needed and there are better ways to use it(48 life 23 mana at with 105 nodes) seems to be trivial when we can get a 8% life or mana node

"

Azazelx53 wrote:

"

Daltonium239 wrote:

I really like your build but I think it could be a bit better with Scion so I took your build and adapted it. By starting with Scion I was able to get 32% extra life, 40% extra mana regen, 24% more mana, and a bit more strength. To get all that I had to spec out of elemental damage nodes and the aura nodes since you didn't really seem to be utilizing auras much and I got alot more mana from Scion area.
Here's my Version.
I'm only telling you this because I would like to hear your opinion on it since it is your build and you have played it, you are more apt to know if my changes are good or not before I play with them.

hey you added an extra node in your build ill just take that out and do a overview of the builds here:

Str---124:::140
Dex---173:::170
Int---223:::210
Inc Mana---48:::72
Inc Mana Regen---100:::140
inc Spell Dmg---24:::0
Inc Life---200:::224
Inc Ele Dmg---15:::0
Crit Chance---165:::185


if its not on here i didn't think it was important or was the same

the 23 int more in the Shadow is 11 mana and 4% more ES
the 16 str more in Scion is 8 life
so those are the stat tradeoffs

TL:DR
24%inc mana , 40% inc mana Regen, 24% inc life, -24% spell dmg , -15% ele dmg, 20% Crit Chance


so its pretty much just a tradeoff of dmg (39% more for you fire light ice traps, 24 for bear) for more mana life and mana regen...

and 2 things I noticed
1 is that we can just trade the 3 aura nodes for the 24% life nodes near the shadow tree if needed

and 2 the 16 life mana node we got in the shadow does seem like its not needed and there are better ways to use it(48 life 23 mana at with 105 nodes) seems to be trivial when we can get a 8% life or mana node

First, let's start with the aura nodes. You're not realizing how effective those particular ones are for this build. The +26% aura effectiveness does a whole lot.

A level 20 Clarity does 24.6% mana regen. While you have 40% inc mana regen, that means you're gaining 9.84 mana/sec from that node, plus whatever it multiplies because of your base mana. I have roughly 2200 mana right now, my absolute base mana regen is about 40 mana/sec, meaning at this amount of mana, you'll gain about 16 mana/sec. Totaling both of those up, that means you'll gain about 25 mana/sec

With the Aura nodes, you're turning the 24.6% base into 30.1%. That extra 6.5% or so is then multiplied again by the 100% boost to mana regen I have already in my passive tree making those nodes add around 13 mana/sec. So in the end, the extra mana regen isn't all that much, however, we're not done with the aura nodes.

Moving onto what the Aura nodes does for grace is going to be a HUGE difference between our builds. To keep the math simple, a level 20 grace adds 2000 evasion. Your build still takes the +70% evasion nodes, meaning Grace in total adds 3400 evasion. Now, because of the aura nodes of +26%, that makes grace add roughly another 500 in my set up, which is then again multiplied by the original +70%...making my version of Grace add a little more than 800 total armor extra than what you have. I took off some of my gear to simulate roughly what 800 evasion would do, it's a 5% damage reduction change.

So in a way, you spent 4 points to leave the scion tree that I don't have, and those 3 extra 8% HP nodes. The 3 Aura nodes alone pretty much combat what all 7 of those points try to accomplish by adding mana regen and more armor (effective HP). Granted, your way adds more of both, but it's costing you 7 points again my 3. Let's also not forget that the 5% mana reservation node means that I'm also gaining about 3% of my TOTAL mana pool back from reserves that you have to spend. Further yet counteracting the +24% mana that you gain at the start of scion. The one thing I will say about this however, total mana pool is not an issue in your 80s. I have 1100 mana free and it's more than enough to sustain spell casting and incoming damage through Mind Over Matter.

Now, as I've shown how the 3 aura nodes alone help "take the edge" off every advantage you have listed as a + for the Scion route, the one thing that you absolutely cannot make up is the +spell/ele dmg bonus of the beginning of the Shadow Tree.

Going back to your comparison chart, it looks more like this:


YOURS >>> MINE

24% inc mana >>> 3%+ of *TOTAL* mana regained through reservation. Also remember that Grace is a % aura. Which means out of the 24% extra mana from those nodes, 43% of it is being soaked up by Grace. That means you're really only gaining 13% of your *BASE* mana, while I gain 3% of my *TOTAL* mana. It's pretty close.

40% mana regen >>> Boosted Clarity which offsets about half that, also jewelry is more effective for me than you because it's boosting a bigger base.

24% inc life >>> 5% extra damage mitigation (You have a bigger pool, I have less spikes)

no answer >>> 39% increased damage to elements, 24% to bear trap (Let's also not forget that when it comes to Fire Trap, and Conc Effect Gem, the 39% gets another 69% *MORE* damage. Also Increased Burning Damage Gem, the more fire damage you do up front, the more damage that gem increased for the burn. And lastly, my shocks and freezes will last longer.)

Yes you will have more mana, and more mana regen, however those 2 things are 2 things that I have no issues with at the levels I have them currently.

The Life vs Dmg Mitigation is a simple one to weigh. You win against "Kole" type monsters that smash the hell out of you hard, I win against hordes of smaller monsters. You also gain the edge against elemental based bosses like Piety.

As for the spell/ele damage, that one is 100% completely a win for me. You have absolutely nothing to counteract any of those gains.

All in all, because the mana and mana regen gains really don't do anything for this build, it's your increased life vs my damage mitigation and increased damage output. I personally would say your build might be the more "safe" build for doing nemesis, while mine can cruise a bit quicker through map farming. Just a matter of preference really I suppose.

is cloak of defiance required for this build? in your original post you only state 2 necessary items but a few posts down you have added the chest pieces and say 3 neccesary items.

"

Kozakuren22 wrote:

is cloak of defiance required for this build? in your original post you only state 2 necessary items but a few posts down you have added the chest pieces and say 3 neccesary items.

This build has gone through quite a bit of changes. When I first made the build, it was Sunblast Belt and Deerstalker Boots. I ended up working in Cloak of Defiance and it helped. However, as I tinkered around a little bit more, I found it to be more effective to ditch the Deerstalkers, and also naturally take Mind Over Matter and use a different chest than Cloak of Defiance.

I have updated the original post a handful of times. If you read it again as it is, the ONLY required piece of gear is the Sunblast belt at this point. It leaves a lot more options available to customize what else you wear, especially when it comes to Item Rarity.

I now have 6 slots available to load in Item Rarity, with Deerstalkers it was 5. However, because Deerstalkers don't have resists, and neither did Cloak of Defiance, I found myself cramming resists more than IIR on those 5 slots. Now I have the flexibility to dabble in both resists and IIR in all 6 slots.

This build is really fun. Since you revised your must have items will having a Sunblast and then filling the rest of your slots with hp/resist/mana/evasion give good results or should I grab the cloak and deerstalkers as well?

"

Skrigg wrote:

This build is really fun. Since you revised your must have items will having a Sunblast and then filling the rest of your slots with hp/resist/mana/evasion give good results or should I grab the cloak and deerstalkers as well?

I would say Cloak is a waste to bother with.

Deerstalkers can still have a place. My 4L Ice Nova is with Ele Prolif, Trap, and Reduced Duration. If you do choose to use Deerstalkers, instead of the Trap gem since it's built in, you can add Cold Pen. Boots are kinda optional and up to you. You can get the benefits of Cold Pen and Trap Laying Speed, or use Rare boots with more HP, Resists, and some IIR.

Do remember though, Deerstalkers are only level 11 Trap. Using the gem at level 20 would give you 9% *MORE* damage, not just increased. And quality gives 15% Trap Laying speed, granted for ONLY the Ice trap and not all 4. Even though the sway in damage would favor Cold Pen in Deerstalkers, it would be a lot closer than you think. I personally favor the extra HP, Resists, and IIR over using Deerstalkers.

Desired links:

Weapon (RBB) - Reduced Mana, Grace, Clarity

Should be RGB?

"

Samuliizzio wrote:

Desired links:

Weapon (RBB) - Reduced Mana, Grace, Clarity

Should be RGB?

fixed, thanks

Thank you so much for the advice. As a disclaimer, I don't even play Nemesis. I've just had it drilled into my head so much that large health pools are the only way to play. Also, I'm not exactly sure how spell damage benefits various traps and mines or if it does at all, I would like some clarification there. Lastly, what do you think of running discipline as a third aura. I have another EB character with the 3 aura groups in the top half of the tree and when running discipline it more than doubles my total pool and gives me about 250 more usable mana, however this may not be the case for you because of only taking one group of aura nodes.

"

Daltonium239 wrote:

Thank you so much for the advice. As a disclaimer, I don't even play Nemesis. I've just had it drilled into my head so much that large health pools are the only way to play. Also, I'm not exactly sure how spell damage benefits various traps and mines or if it does at all, I would like some clarification there. Lastly, what do you think of running discipline as a third aura. I have another EB character with the 3 aura groups in the top half of the tree and when running discipline it more than doubles my total pool and gives me about 250 more usable mana, however this may not be the case for you because of only taking one group of aura nodes.

That's just the thing, I DO have a large health pool. I'm level 84 at the moment. My next point is going towards the 12% HP node near Golem's Blood which is a sizeable gain. However, as I write this, I'm at 4200 HP, and like I've said in a previous post, 1100 mana. That means I have a 5300 HP pool and my mana regens at 180 mana/sec, health regen of 105 per sec. We are not a melee character, we are a ranged character, and we're able to kite monsters probably better than any build in the entire game if need be. 5300 health for a spell caster is pretty good, it's generally the more up close builds that have 6k+.

Spell damage does indeed benefit traps. Out of the 4 traps we use, they have varying damage effectiveness. Lightning has a 90% damage effectiveness, which means for every +10 spell damage, you get 9. Fire Trap and Ice Nova are even par with your nodes, 100% effectiveness. Bear Trap is 150% effectiveness, however Bear Trap does not benefit from spell damage, but it does gain the +12% physical damage, at 150% clip, from the node Path of the Warrior near the large HP ring near Scion.

As for Discipline. Currently I have roughly 2300 mana and 1100 mana free after reserves. I happen to have a level 18 Disc and when I put it on: 3100 mana with 500 free after reserves. This build doesn't take enough Mana Reserve nodes to make running Discipline worth it.