Arc

Try Incinerate.

Burn down bosses in 3-4 seconds hard-casting.

Arc = shit.

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RickyDMMontoya wrote:

Try Incinerate.

Burn down bosses in 3-4 seconds hard-casting.

Same thing with Flame blast, only the range is greater.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Sorry you see you guys go.

We'll keep fighting!

Nah, I'll still follow the patch notes carefully, and hopefully one day arc will worth using.
I support the idea of arc getting buffed.

Many people I speak with ingame wait for Arc buffs. "Since I started to figure out PoE I wanted to play a strong Arc selfcasting build" is a common thing I hear.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

1. Lower the cost a bit -- not too much, because once you get to around 40, you should have a solid mana pool

A mana cost reduction is a must imo. The only thing to justify the current costs is buffing another aspect by a huge amount.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

2. Remove the damage penalty when used in conjunction with Chain -- nobrainer, that.

This would make it way better against large packs but will likely prevent other buffs. Not a nobrainer for me. I would rather see a tradeoff "good dps against small groups vs. average dps against large groups.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

3. Increase the crit chance from 4% to 5% OR fiddle with the cast speed -- both have the same result.

Agreed. Although I'd prefer a crit boost.

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Aimeryan wrote:

That is sort of the issue with Arc - it is neither a sweeper (effective vs a large group of mobs) or a bludger (effective vs a single-target). Damage wise, it is only about-competitive (before support gems) when the mobs number two or three, not less, not more. Hence, Arc is a (weak) pronger (effective vs a few targets).

This describes the current situation really well!

The mana cost isn't much of a problem guys. It's 40 mana a second. Storm Call is 36; it's only 11% larger. It's just how they designed spells to be; you need Mana Regeneration, you need Clarity, and you need to strategically avoid 8% mana nodes in your skill tree as though it were cancer. Because it is.

It could cost 0 mana and I still wouldn't use it as a PvE attack spell; when your mana issues are solved Storm Call is effectively 0 mana already. That it takes a lot longer to cast to do less damage is the issue.

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LimitedRooster wrote:

The mana cost isn't much of a problem guys. It's 40 mana a second. Storm Call is 36; it's only 11% larger. It's just how they designed spells to be; you need Mana Regeneration, you need Clarity, and you need to strategically avoid 8% mana nodes in your skill tree as though it were cancer. Because it is.

It could cost 0 mana and I still wouldn't use it as a PvE attack spell; when your mana issues are solved Storm Call is effectively 0 mana already. That it takes a lot longer to cast to do less damage is the issue.

So you are comparing burst skill that does ways more damage with a continuous dps skill on mana? Mana cost is always an issue, just look at elemental hit nerf, or should I say removal from the game.

And they designed spell wrong, that is a known fact. They learned their lesson and made flameblast later, but decided not to touch other spells at all. I guess because they are so in love with CoC idea that they feel it outweights balancing every other spell for self-cast.

Hey I'm not saying they're perfect, and the trigger gems need a lot of work (points > Tempest Shield vs Cast When Damage taken), but mana is intended to always be an issue. And they've succeeded at that.

Without any gear whatsoever, just the passive tree and Clarity (and you max the thing), you get 100 regeneration a second. Arc is 40, and it takes three 140% supports to bring it to just a hair above your regen rate (110), at -10 mps that's over a minute spent casting before having to life your finger for six seconds. In layman's terms we can express that as a pseudo-mechanical equivalent of having 90.9% accuracy.

At four support gems, Arc's at 154 mana a second. At -54 mana regen a second, 65% uptime.

And at a full five, 215.6 and -115.6. About six seconds before sitting at empty and having to wait six seconds to refill. It's really not intended for people to use 6L full gosu damage spells nonstop. I suppose to help the developers sleep at night while doing their job (correctly) of denying us things.


Aaaand all of this is endemic to spells in general and not Arc specifically. Game's designed to let people make the wrong decision and screw themselves.

As to GMP's 200% mana multiplier, that's a GMP thing. I've already advocated removing the shotgun effect and improving the Projectile Coverage Enhancers considerably. You think Chain Blows with Arc? That's no different than how LMP/GMP blows with Ice Shot. Not a bit.

@LimitedRooster

Due to Arc's weakness when dealing with large groups and single-targets (which basically make up 90%+ of encounters), you end up casting Arc a lot more than most spells. This, coupled with the high base mana per second cost, causes the issue with mana.

Chain (which should be good with Arc, even if it currently is not) is 200% mana multiplier alone. Lightning pen is 150%, elemental proliferation is 140%. Faster casting is 120%, as well as increasing cast speed so mana usage is higher for that reason.

Lets say we have no increased cast speed % already (unlikely, but ok):

Arc 32 mana, 0.8 second cast time, therefore 32/0.8 = 40 mana per second.
Adding the 39% increased cast speed in from faster casting support; 0.8/(1+0.39) = 0.58 second cast time (to 2 d.p., rounded up).
Therefore, 32/0.58 = 55 mana per second (rounded down to nearest integer).

Now, lets add in the mana cost multipliers:

55 * 1 * 2 * 1.5 * 1.4 * 1.2 = 277 mana per second (rounded down to nearest integer).

That is not sustainable at 100 mana per second regen. As I said, this is assuming we don't even have any other increased cast speed %, and I rounded everything in favour of making the mana per second cost lower; the true value is likely to be a lot higher. Indeed, this was with only 4 supports; you could easily add in life leech to that (130% mana multiplier).

P.S. You say that the game isn't designed around 6-link skill spam, I say it very much is.

Right, increased casting speed makes you pay for its contribution to increased damage. It is a cruel yet sexy mistress. And you can also get a couple hundred mana regen% on gear.

260 is a reasonable number to aim for; replace the Lightning Arrow support gem with Added Lightning (I live in eternal hope the absurd damage effectiveness penalty on this thing will be removed. Stop laughing. They have to accept this won't hit the same guy twice ever, and if it does, it won't end the world if it were actually GOOD whenever that happens), but return the mana cost back when a base 50% cast speed from gear and tree is assumed.

The full-damage 6L obviously requires extraordinary measures: Arcane Efficiency or Eldritch Battery. (The only answer is Eldritch Battery btw. Efficiency to squeeze out 35% more damage is in the same ballpark as taking 10% damage nodes when you already have 300% increased damage. (Though obviously still superior than that if you have to actually travel to acquire said hypothetical damage nodes.))

Yes, faster casting does increase the mana cost over time... like mana multipliers do with any other support. It is just a slightly different way of doing it.

I don't feel Eldritch Battery should be a default requirement for an offensive skill - it goes against the nature of the game to force that. EB is meant to be an option that allows you to stack more auras by giving you a greater absolute amount left over after reservation, and has synergy with MoM and Arctic Armour as an alternative means of defence to an energy shield.

Furthermore, other skills can use 6-links and not incur any where near the mana costs of Arc; they do not require EB/AE, yet are far stronger skills. I'm calling this out - Arc does not deserve the ridiculous mana costs it has.