Arc

Look at me! I'm a mutalisk!

Just throwing this out there, but thinking about how arc and vaal arc specifically work, wouldn't it be cool if there were a way to summon additional enemies or minions that you could chain your skills off of?

Two examples, a minion that increases the damage of your skills if it pierces or chains off of them, or a skill that takes a chunk of an enemies health (ala D2 static field) and turns it into fractured minions of the same base type to fight.

Again, just throwing it out there. Probably not entirely relavant. But I think something like that would solve any and all "not enough single target damage for this skill" issues that crop up on skills like arc.

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Wooser69 wrote:

Just throwing this out there, but thinking about how arc and vaal arc specifically work, wouldn't it be cool if there were a way to summon additional enemies or minions that you could chain your skills off of?

Two examples, a minion that increases the damage of your skills if it pierces or chains off of them, or a skill that takes a chunk of an enemies health (ala D2 static field) and turns it into fractured minions of the same base type to fight.

Again, just throwing it out there. Probably not entirely relavant. But I think something like that would solve any and all "not enough single target damage for this skill" issues that crop up on skills like arc.

Hmm, I see what you are thinking.

One of the most common points brought in opposition to Arc is that it is too easy to hit with ("no skill", as they like to say). Personally, I think this is a moot point; the vast majority of skills are easy to hit with - Arc is only slightly easier. Regardless, perhaps if a buff came in a form that made away with this it might be more acceptable.

I am not sure on exactly how this should be implemented, but the idea I was thinking about (based on Wooser69's idea) is for some sort of lightning rod that was [summoned/placed/thrown/whatever]. Maybe a hotkey could be used for setting it up. Anyhow, the lightning rod would act as an intermediate conductor for chains, like so:

1. If Arc (or the user) chooses a target to hit that is in range of the lightning rod, Arc first hits the lightning rod and gains extra damage (or something else), before then hitting the target. If Arc (or the user) chooses a target that is not in range of the lightning rod, Arc just hits the target.

2. The lightning rod has a small conducting radius (thus, the mob to hit must be near the rod).

3. The lightning rod does not consume a chain - it is merely a conductor.

4. Arc may choose to hit the original target if the lightning rod is in range of that target.

5. The lightning rod does not have legs - it can not move.

So, the benefits of this are that Arc gets empowered if the target is near the lightning rod, and that a single-target (where Arc really sucks) can be hit multiple times if near the lightning rod.

The disadvantage is that you have to manage the placement of the lightning rod to gain these benefits since the conducting radius is small - no more "no skill" Arc.

On the other hand, it is a little elaborate (I so know Charan will be against this for that reason), but then I like elaborate.

How does the damage calculation get decided? This may apply to skills other then arc, but is it simply a random number in the range of damage? Is there some sort of gaussian distribution whereby middle damage ranges are preferred?

Basically, when the damage done is in a range of x-y, how is the damage chosen and is the logic applied the same to arc?

Personally I'd love a system where it's largely gaussian on the median damage and the curve of probability shifts based on the past 5-10 choices to get a more even DPS out.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

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Kadajko wrote:

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Ah, so you didn't hard cast through the Weaver. Clever approach, but not hard casting.

It's impossible to hard cast through that.

Also I wouldn't be able to do it without lightning warp.

Even with other spells? I'll wait for your answer. :)

No of course you can hard cast through it with other spells, I was talking about it being impossible to hard cast trough it with arc.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

*unless* GGG declare their version of Chain Lightning to be nothing but support and fodder for pseudo-casters like totem users and CoCS users.

The problem is, why would anyone use it even for that purpose, when there are better spells for every situation to put into your CoC or totem build?

Why would I want Arc instead of Ethereal Knives, or Arc instead of Fireball?

By the way, having used them significantly on normal (where they take 1/2 the souls as Merciless) Vaal skills are useless. They don't charge off of summoned monsters, so even if you get to use it once against a boss, even if the boss summons monsters, it's fucking useless after that. Also it seems like a third of them (Vaal Ground Slam, Vaal Rain of Arrows, Vaal Double Strike, Vaal Cyclone, Vaal Detonate Dead) are pointless, and the others take far too many souls to charge. Burning Arrow alone, out of the entire pack, seems like it might be useable.

Horrible implementation of a shitty idea. Fail on all accounts.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Precisely. If you can do it with other direct damage spells, you should be able to do it with Arc

This particular fight requires a sweeper, you can't try to smash down the Weaver solo with 1-target Glacial Hammer and complain that it's impossible. (And you'd have to be heavily overgeared to manage that.)

I don't see Arc ever being a sweeper, it was never good at mowing down cows with 8 arcs, and it'll never be good at mowing down baby spiders with anything less than 20.

It's decent for keeping boss shields down from off-screen, and you can attach Culling + Rarity + Quantity to it to slowly crawl out of poverty. (If you can't or don't want to use Power Siphon for that purpose.) If it had the damage of 2 sparks, it'd be a functional small-group sweeper for those weaselly monsters hard to hit with Storm Call.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Precisely. If you can do it with other direct damage spells, you should be able to do it with Arc *unless* GGG declare their version of Chain Lightning to be nothing but support and fodder for pseudo-casters like totem users and CoCS users.

So the fact that it's currently impossible isn't a conclusion. It's a point of contention.

Welcome to the Arc Feedback Thread.

Oh yes I agree. I'm not satisfied with my current build either, even if I managed to kill weaver. It's costly, it's single target damage still lacks and I am pretty squishy, since I had to build massive mandatory mana sustain.

That is sort of the issue with Arc - it is neither a sweeper (effective vs a large group of mobs) or a bludger (effective vs a single-target). Damage wise, it is only about-competitive (before support gems) when the mobs number two or three, not less, not more. Hence, Arc is a (weak) pronger (effective vs a few targets).

This is due to the way Arc works - it can only deal multiple hits if there is more than one target, yet the lower the number of overall targets the more damage each takes on average. Increasing the number of chains (without changing the damage each chain does) would make Arc a better sweeper, however, it would also make Arc a far better pronger. Thus, while some additional chains seems appropriate (since Arc is currently a weak pronger anyway), we can not just increase the number of chains until we can effectively be a sweeper because we would then be an overpowered pronger. Basically, Arc scales better as a pronger than a sweeper when it comes to additional chains.

The other issue plaguing Arc's damage potential is not having the strong support gems work with it (like GMP), as well as Chain actually weakening Arc. I would love alternative support gems of the same potential as the current ones (which are overused) to be added into the game (and that work with Arc), but if that is not going to happen then we need to make the current ones work with Arc.

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As a support skill, it is too slow to use for the purpose of shocking and then switching; the shock chance is low, the crit chance is low (for shocking with), and the damage can be very low (like single-digit low) - so you often have to cast Arc many times to shock, and Arc is not fast casting. Again, the fact it only hits a few targets also comes into play here. If instead you could use it once or twice to near guarantee everything was shocked (and for a suitable time) and thus be able to switch fast to using your main skill... well, at least Arc would be a useful support skill.

Arguably, it can be useful in groups to support other people's damage. However, it is common for people to use elemental (including lightning) damage on Attacks (that can hit many mobs at a time, unlike Arc), so there is a good chance that the mobs will be shocked from these Attacks anyway. Still, I guess supporting other people in groups might be what the developers decided Arc was for.

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The mana cost is ridiculous. Lower it.

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With the totem nerf, maybe making Arc cast's speed better could now be on the table. It would be better at shocking, would be better at dps in general, and would feel more fun (ok, that last one is subjective :P).

I started a new char today and decided to build around flameblast for the first time.

Not even touching arc again, the difference in power is larger than anything I could even imagine. Weaver one-shot, along with a whole bunch of other bosses and mobs.