Animate Guardian

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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TheFatChickThriller wrote:

That's the major drawback of the skill, unfortunately. Beside that, it's kinda stupid that you effectivly can't use the skill on high level maps AT ALL, unless you go back and get some lower level items in, say, the Library first. ilvl73 is max without Empower, like what? There's no other skill in the game that has his kind of restriction

This is being looked at. We're not going to change it as a knee-jerk reaction, but are looking at potential improvements to the skill, including looking at the level requirement.

thanks for the reassurance skipper, my 20/20 iron golem looks forward to getting off the bench and into the game.

You could make it so just the affixes don't work below the current level of AG. That way all uniques would still function at maximum level without empower. Perhaps even allow partial affix usage if the affix itself is within AG's max level. You could keep Item level just for balance up until 66 for proper map usage, although that sounds like a rough implementation.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Moose65 wrote:

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netreader01 wrote:

Lochtonial Caress item didn't work at animate guardian.
I wanted my guardian to share his charges for me but it didn't work.
Yes, I saw he got frenzy, power, endurance charges just for himself.
Can anyone tell me why it doesn't work?

Glad you posted this before I tried, and there is no reason it shouldn't work.

Yes there is. Conduit shares charges with party members. The Guardian, like other minions, is an ally in that it's on your side, but it is never a member of your party.

That is a very thin line to nitpick on, and isn't intuitive at all that an ally wouldn't also be considered a member of your party. I do completely understand the difference between player tags, ally tags, and minion tags. With that said, the definition of a "party" is left at GGG's discretion when all is said and done.

However, I am glad to hear that this skill hasn't been forgotten about, and look forward to improvements that will make it more viable to use eventually. As it is now, hes at best a very gimmicky support unit with the potential to cost you 4+ Chaos if he bites it before you can hit weapon swap.

I'm a little new to the skill myself but I have noticed his fragile nature, which is a real shame. Someone mentioned you could use skill gems in the equipment and when equipped, he would use them as well. I found out you couldn't when I tested this myself, but the thought alone is intriguing.

Would this make him too OP or is this possible? The gems wouldn't level, but it would make for a good gem sink, a guardian able to use Glacial Hammer or something would be really cool! Naturally... he wouldn't spam them constantly but use them sparingly and no auras. There could be a limit to what skills he could use, like support skills and what skills they affect.

Just a thought.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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TheFatChickThriller wrote:

That's the major drawback of the skill, unfortunately. Beside that, it's kinda stupid that you effectivly can't use the skill on high level maps AT ALL, unless you go back and get some lower level items in, say, the Library first. ilvl73 is max without Empower, like what? There's no other skill in the game that has his kind of restriction

This is being looked at. We're not going to change it as a knee-jerk reaction, but are looking at potential improvements to the skill, including looking at the level requirement.

Thanks for letting us know you're looking at it. I'll stop making threads about it now.

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Onigami wrote:

I'm a little new to the skill myself but I have noticed his fragile nature, which is a real shame. Someone mentioned you could use skill gems in the equipment and when equipped, he would use them as well. I found out you couldn't when I tested this myself, but the thought alone is intriguing.

Would this make him too OP or is this possible? The gems wouldn't level, but it would make for a good gem sink, a guardian able to use Glacial Hammer or something would be really cool! Naturally... he wouldn't spam them constantly but use them sparingly and no auras. There could be a limit to what skills he could use, like support skills and what skills they affect.

Just a thought.

That'd be so cool. Would be restricted to melee skills only anyway, and then you could limit these to be supported by only one or two support gems max ...

Imagine a Guardian swinging a Polearm with Cleave and Multi. So cool! Summoner redefined: only one summon and you take the Marauder weapons just to give it to your Guardian. The look on their faces when my Guardian does more melee dps then they do while i'm just standing back cursing the enemies...

Meh, now i want that. GGG pls!

Agreed except for the no auras part.

Aura-providing rune words were the only thing that really made iron golems worth using in D2. Without -something- awesome like that, the cost in items is just too high.

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TyrantKeel wrote:

Agreed except for the no auras part.

Aura-providing rune words were the only thing that really made iron golems worth using in D2. Without -something- awesome like that, the cost in items is just too high.

Leer Cast sir, Leer Cast.

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Moose65 wrote:

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TyrantKeel wrote:

Agreed except for the no auras part.

Aura-providing rune words were the only thing that really made iron golems worth using in D2. Without -something- awesome like that, the cost in items is just too high.

the aura runewords were only available because of the mass duping of them, also crush blow weapons made good golems for bosses.

Leer Cast sir, Leer Cast.

animate guardian with leer cast helmet is amazing for my build (auramancer). since i reserve so much of my life and mana its hard casting spells so another permanent minion is the perfect call.

my guy us supported by:

18 purity of fire
18 purity of lightning
20 purity of ice
20 purity of elements
21 haste
21 grace
22 vitality
22 discipline
18 determination

with all the increased aura effectiveness and all the minion damage and health nodes. i have him on a 4 socket RRGB for ag, multistike, cast on death and minion damage. with all the elemental defense aruas i could ignore elemental defense stats and focus on high armor items and a 2 hander since i had a so many defense auras. he then killed himself on a reflect physical damage map :(

i then replaced minion damage with minion health it an attempt to tone down his damage so he wont kill himself. i equipped the leer cast on him since it will buff the part while toning town his damage which is what i wanted. gave him a fat shield (1000 armor) and a claw for life leech and now im proud to say that hes survived 4 level 73 rare maps so far with no real danger to him from what i saw (stayed above 90% live).

i was wondering if i should replace multistike with life leech since id rather focus on a utility golem than a damage dealer. is a small life leech (claw) + more damage/faster hits (multistrike) better than small life leech (claw) + large life leech (the gem)?

Thus far I've only played with Animate Guardian casually. I really like the idea of AG, so I'll be incorporating it more heavily in to my play style on a new summoner soon. From what I've seen, however, I agree with the majority of posters in the thread in saying that it needs tweaking.

My experience:

The Animated Guardian starts off very fragile. With some leveling and support gems, it becomes gradually more durable and is able to survive for longer, but it still requires a little bit of babysitting from time to time. Combined with it's less-than-impressive damage output, one quickly begins to wonder if it's worth taking up a socket any more, let alone player attention. On a positive note, during those periods where AG is actually rather durable, it can be quite handy in drawing enemy attention off you, though only in the same way that a single zombie or skeleton might be.

One facet of 'babysitting' the guardian involves keeping an eye out for items to raise to heal the guardian when it's health gets too low. I really gave this change to the skill a chance, but I found my attention drawn too much to sifting through items instead of actual combat. I inevitably went back to using my flasks of animation (which worked just fine to begin with). I think I would much rather be focusing on using Animate Weapon instead of trying to keep my Animate Guardian standing.

Lastly (and this is just my own opinion really), I take issue with the fact that items are consumed by using this skill. This essentially means that Animate Guardian has a currency cost to use, like Animate Weapon. Assuming one is only using white items that drop randomly, that is still at least an Identify Scroll for a fully equipped Animate Guardian that may not actually survive the next five minutes. I feel that this, above everything else, really goes against the Path of Exile play style. The skill essentially has a reagent cost! At the moment, it would be insane to give the Animated Guardian anything above a low-tier rare, given how little AG contributes to survival and DPS.

My suggestions:

First and foremost, I think the way the skill consumes items should be redone. The Guardian should be equippable rather than consuming items used to create it. If overpowering is a concern, there could be a rule attached to the skill that it can only be equipped with rare, magic, or even just common items. I feel this is an infinitely better route than the current system of consuming items (and thus currency).

As far as functionality goes, I find the AG is most useful to me when it is drawing the attention of the enemies, much like my skeletons and zombies. I feel that this should become the Guardian's niche (befitting it's name). Increasing the guardian's base health and defensive stats while leaving it's sub-par damage the same would be a big step in the right direction. Along with these durability buffs, giving the AG a shout that it uses periodically to draw enemy attention would make it useful in a way that skeletons and zombies only are by consequence of their numbers.

I feel that increasing the AG's damage is not necessarily the route to approach the skill. It would need a rather significant damage increase OR a dramatic change to it's mobility and behavior to be useful in the way zombies and skeletons are. There are many zombies and skeletons and only one guardian, and allowing AG to compete with the former as far as damage goes could be a big mistake. Making the Guardian overpowered should obviously be a bigger concern than making it underpowered.

Some have suggested allowing the Guardian to use skill gems. I feel this could work as well, but with limitations. I really am concerned with making Animate Guardian so powerful that it becomes a "must have" for everyone, and I think allowing it to use any sort of gem could cause that to happen. Perhaps equipping it with only one sort of attack gem would be a better option, allowing for limited but reasonable customization.