why ETERNAL ORBS are really BAD for the game !

If I was designing an ARPG, every single game mode would have a death-based item sink. The difference would be that Hardcore would be one-and-done, while "softcore" would be an irreparable durability system which would require you to die multiple times before items are lost.

But in either case: the more deaths, the more BiS gear down the drain.

Off topic, but I didn't start it:

The ultimate fun item-sink ARPG experience, IMO, is a CT league, where on-death a percentage of your gear is destroyed. That percentage would have to be carefully balanced with how item acquisition rate and mechanics work, along with that a real CRAFTING (not gambling) system would have to be introduced, to have a real live economy with real production and consumption of goods instead of this "Frustrated Wall St. trader developers" and "Las Vegas addict" thing we have going right now.

For a game that claims to be hardcore (and isn't in reality), following the 'full-loot open pvp' mode that good HC MMO's have would have been obvious. But unfortunately the game would had to be designed with PvP as a core feature from the beginning. At this stage, my hopes for successful and fun pvp in this game are pretty much gone (but the damage, unlike permanent leagues economies, is not irreparable), behind a veil of RMT failures, imbalanced skills, one-shoot-RNG fests, etc.

Also a lot of the twisted ideas of what a "good economy" is, or risk/reward is, or proper item sinks/faucets are to have the former two things, would have to change. And in there lies my fear that a CT league when released is going to be an absolute failure.

The funny thing, is that in this environment, the existence of stuff like eternals, mirrors, and even RMT, wouldn't matter in the slightness (yeah, it wouldn't), if my experience from playing sandbox open-pvp HC MMO's have anything to say. In fact it would create a meta that would naturally feed the replayability of the game so far beyond any rehash of old content, that it would keep the interest of players much longer (even if still a niche market) without the need of constant marketing tricks and this terrible design of 'fresh leagues' (actually I think 1-week/1-mo races are amazing concept, although always gonna be skewed by no-lifing viability, but that's not a big deal; but this whole bastardized concept of ladder resets, which is actually originally half-assed solution to the problem of duping/botting/RMT etc. is just outright lazy and bad design). This would be the conceptual key to surpass and complete what D2 didn't do.


A lot of the problems that are holding this game potential (apart of obvious technical issues) stem from the game that developers never thought thoughtfully how the various game systems integrate, they simply though "hey, this sounds cool, so let's do it", they proceed to mix layers upon layers of RNG with the MMO'esque economy, dated trading systems with a heavy focus on trading, crafting and gambling, etc. without thinking the consequences of doing so, or just resigning to mediocre solutions ("rerolling each 4 months").

The worst part is in all these issues we are regressing, as the game was in much better shape in closed beta compared to OB, and even worse, on full release.

@knac84: When you kill someone and take their gear, that isn't a gear sink; it's a gear transfer. Sinks involve items being destroyed.

I may be misunderstanding, but I think knac was seconding your suggestion of a general irreversible item wear/destruction sink, Scrotie. Whether that's based on death or some defined 'usage' or whether its a durability or chance to break is a matter of design preference. I am of the opinion something in that vein is best for the long term sustainability of this type of game. I will concede not everyone prefers a long sustained experience. Some prefer many shorter experiences. Ideally, both preferences should be accommodated.

By now I'm sure we're all familiar with the arguments against an unavoidable item sink. Even soft, inhibitory sinks like hardcore cause much division and derision. The ethereal super-charge-for-impermanence idea, then, is an attempt to meet all concerns in the middle. It's very possible it manages to miss the mark on all counts. But the fundamental principle is in combining both choice and aggregate economic imperative. I can only speculate as to whether the forum discussions on this matter have all been for naught. I suspect the topic has crossed the desks of GGG's brightest minds more than once however.

eternal orb is one of the biggest fails of this game so far, at least pertaining to permanent leagues (and imo the reason why GGG is ok with it - they want a ladder based game)

1. they are absolutely useless in short term span or to casual players. as a result, theyre merely currency rather than useful crafting tools. exalts will make your gear slightly better, for eternals to maximize potential, you need a boatload of exalts.

2. they remove all risk from exalting the best possible item. eternal orb pretty much guarantees that with infinite resources you will be able to create BiS item. and with things like mirror, you will gain not only the erect e-peen of having the best item, but also lots of currency flowing in for mirror fees.

before eternal, regals/exalts could and did ruin many potential bis item, as they should have.

as such, in a few years there will be a ton of perfectly rolled rares in long-term leagues.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@knac84: When you kill someone and take their gear, that isn't a gear sink; it's a gear transfer. Sinks involve items being destroyed.

Quoting my self: where on-death a percentage of your gear is destroyed

You don't take ALL their gear, only a percentage of the gear (that can go from 0 to 100%) drops, the rest is forever deleted from the game. This is how many open pvp games work.

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Lyralei wrote:

Unfortunately, the only thing Eternals ever did for the game was to lower the value of found rares both in monetary terms and appreciation. Back in the day, this sword was considered extremely good. Now its just an "Eh.." item because creating the ideal weapon is easily achievable.

Wait... Does the crafting system "easily" achieve excellent results, or is it RNG gambling that has no reward associated with the cost?

Is it Friday or Saturday? I forget what we're supposed to be complaining about today!

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Blasted wrote:

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Lyralei wrote:

Unfortunately, the only thing Eternals ever did for the game was to lower the value of found rares both in monetary terms and appreciation. Back in the day, this sword was considered extremely good. Now its just an "Eh.." item because creating the ideal weapon is easily achievable.

Wait... Does the crafting system "easily" achieve excellent results, or is it RNG gambling that has no reward associated with the cost?

Is it Friday or Saturday? I forget what we're supposed to be complaining about today!

funny because its true. some people hate RNG but a lot of people hate the guarantee.

Im one of the people who is fine with RNG and hates the guarantee, especially since rares > uniques in this game, and perfect rares should be....rare, not bound by infinite resources in the 'cant go wrong, if I screw up, Ill just go back to imprint' crafting scenario

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Blasted wrote:

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Lyralei wrote:

Unfortunately, the only thing Eternals ever did for the game was to lower the value of found rares both in monetary terms and appreciation. Back in the day, this sword was considered extremely good. Now its just an "Eh.." item because creating the ideal weapon is easily achievable.

Wait... Does the crafting system "easily" achieve excellent results, or is it RNG gambling that has no reward associated with the cost?

Is it Friday or Saturday? I forget what we're supposed to be complaining about today!

These seem like separate concerns entirely. On one hand, you have to deal with near perfect items that come from gambling, especially eternal-exalting, undermining traditional loot acquisition i.e. Farming. On the other hand, you have to deal with the economic imperative of accumulating an exhorbidant reserve of orbs with which to produce those near perfect items, as opposed to steadily upgrading gear or capriciously experimenting with side-grades.

Eternals (and the lack of a top-down item sink) are at the root of both problems.