Chris: ALT-F4 LEGIT STRAT

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Qarl wrote:

You can IRONMAN.

Damn right I can.

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Melkrow wrote:

Known fact.

Good system.

Agreed.

Anyone who has never exited the game out of some feeling of principles or whatever... I fear for you in real life. I hope the bank you're in never gets robbed, because I imagine you'll be the guy telling off the robbers and acting big until you get shot in the chest.

Use the tools available to you.

Also, from a less debatable standpoint, they would (hopefully) never add in a timer because there are so many times that desync or lag would cause unfair deaths.

I have said it for a long time, if your putting yourself in a situation you shouldn't be your character is going to die eventually. No esc - logout is going to save you forever.

When people are about to die they freak the hell out, I'd be willing to bet more than half of the people don't even manage to hit alt F4 or esc - logout.

When you play HC you see people die all the time. Leveling, at bosses, certain mobs that seem to farm players lives, like people farm docks. Constantly.

Being able to logout and save a character from something that isn't your fault is not only the correct thing to do, but is necessary.

It's just a tool mang. I agree that it doesn't feel great (m-muh immersion!) but it is what it is. Chris should just give us a permanent cutthroat league, alt+f4 doesn't work there.

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Qarl wrote:

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syrioforel wrote:

Chris, are you saying that if we're not using alt-f4 we're playing a version of PoE that is, in your opinion, too difficult? That this is a feature we're expected to use?

No, this is not what he is saying, at all.

And no, we don't specifically plan for quitting out as part of a boss fight. We however are aware it can happen, and some players use this option (including some, but only some, of our developers).

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I played hardcore d2 for many years. I pressed alt-F4 once every few days on average. I cannot imagine an Action RPG design where it's blocked. We discussed this heavily when designing PoE. I'd love to find a solution (because I agree it's bad in principle), but being able to "Nope" out of situations drastically changes a lot about the game.

Qarl, I can't reconcile your post with Chris's immediate followup. These two posts are at odds. If I don't use alt-f4, I'm playing a version of PoE that has alt-f4 disabled, so I'm playing a game that Chris says is unimaginable.

To me, it feels like cheating. I've done it once or twice (in races). Having to reload the game breaks immersion. There's no in-game cost to alt-f4 commensurate to the XP penalty in merciless softcore or to the perma-death of hardcore. I'm concerned that this, even remotely, encouraged.

Based on Chris' post, I can only infer that HC is designed, to an extent, around close calls solved by alt-f4ing. Maybe that's part of the culture around HC. However, I'm confused why there's an XP penalty in softcore at all when alt-f4 is condoned. I thought the XP penalty was there to punish you for getting in over your head -- for being unprepared. If I can alt-f4 freely, though, it's a punishment for not reacting quickly enough.

It's also a mechanic that rewards ranged players. I prefer using ranged characters. Part of the reason alt-f4 feels like cheating to me is that a ranged player can tell when he's about to get into trouble. He can do this before an equivalently leveled and geared melee character can, with some exceptions (reflect being one of them.) Being able to alt-f4 the instant I see my archer is about to be surrounded reduces the tension in the game. Having to deal with the surround, and just barely outmaneuvering the horde of mobs, in contrast makes the game feel dynamic. The game feels more authentic when I have to live with the consequences of my mistakes, and redeem them if possible, rather than having a safety net that I can deploy when things are anything less than ideal.

Its probably an odd distinction, but I'm okay with zerging/portal spamming through bosses because it happens in game or fleeing via portal. However, quitting out of the game altogether crosses the threshold of being illegit. The mindset probably stems from alt-f4ing being more similar to pulling the modem connection which was common playing starcraft/poker with players disconnecting on purpose to avoid losses.

There's a reason why hardcore in D3 is dead.

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ggnorekthx wrote:

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Melkrow wrote:

Known fact.

Good system.

Agreed.

Anyone who has never exited the game out of some feeling of principles or whatever... I fear for you in real life. I hope the bank you're in never gets robbed, because I imagine you'll be the guy telling off the robbers and acting big until you get shot in the chest.

Use the tools available to you.

Also, from a less debatable standpoint, they would (hopefully) never add in a timer because there are so many times that desync or lag would cause unfair deaths.

My concern here is that I agree with the bolded (by me) statement above. If alt-f4 is there, and is condoned, I'm going to use it. If there was a chest in town filled with free exalts, I'm going to take and use them. And it will quickly ruin the game. I don't like a game where alt-f4 is a mechanic, but now since GGG has said they don't consider it an exploit I feel compelled to start using it instead of letting my SC character take its penalty when I've legitimately messed up. I don't like it, but it's silly not to do it.

-dupe post-