What Exactly Killed Diablo 3's Economy (and Implications on PoE)

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Gravethought wrote:

Scrotie, the item system in PoE is pretty much just as lame in the rare category as d3 is.

Lets take a look at chest pieces.

Prefixes: flat defense, % defense, if hp build hp, if not defense/stun hybrid
Suffixes: Resist, resist, resist, everything else is sub optimal.

Anyone can see if a chest piece is good in the blink of an eye, same with weapons.


I'm still waiting for them to actually put interesting stats on rares.

Actually, when it comes to chests, I agree with you entirely on prefixes, less so on suffixes. I mean, chests only have 5 to 7 prefixes available anyway, so with a 5-prefix pool it's pretty much just "don't get Thorns." That's horrible itemization now that I think about it. However, things like +Intelligence could be a better third suffix on an ES chest, and there are four resistances and not three, so in terms of prefix diversity chests aren't a total fail, although there is definitely room for improvement.

The self-correcting nature of the economy in this game is something that should really be acknowledged.

People always complain that it's better to "buy" items than to craft them, but they fail to realize that we're using the very same currency to do both. If you trade off 10 chaos orbs for an item, you're merely trading 10 rare rerolls. Nothing more, nothing less. If, at any point, it becomes more profitable to craft an item than to pay market price for it, the economy will reflect that. Maps skew this pattern a bit because most build have a wide variety of mods that they can or will run, while equippable items are a bit more specific.

Having a hard time explaining what I mean, but the point is that currency items aren't just arbitrarily valuable. The economy in this game is nothing short of genius.

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JahIthBer89 wrote:

People always complain that it's better to "buy" items than to craft them, but they fail to realize that we're using the very same currency to do both. If you trade off 10 chaos orbs for an item, you're merely trading 10 rare rerolls. Nothing more, nothing less. If, at any point, it becomes more profitable to craft an item than to pay market price for it, the economy will reflect that. Maps skew this pattern a bit because most build have a wide variety of mods that they can or will run, while equippable items are a bit more specific.

It's true that 10 Chaos Orbs is worth 10 rare rerolls. However, it is not worth 10 rerolls on the Vaal Regalia you found in Lunaris, nor on a level 68 map; it is worth 10 rerolls on itemlevel 78 Vaal Regalia, or on a Shipyard map. Because most players don't have the right bases to justify crafting, they trade orbs away, and these orbs eventually find their way to the hands of the people who can use them at full value.

so the point is you must invest lots of time into this game to know the value of a item,and the old players can thus take advantage of new players who dosent know. right?

every society need a convenient trading system, a standard currency to decrease cost of trading. dont blame AH for the bad item designing.

Yeah, D3 itemization was a joke for the most part. Early on everyone went for IAS + LoH, then later it was Crit + LS for every class, every build. The legendary patch was fun for a while but then made it even worse by making certain legendary items BiS and it became a game of who can get the most perfect roll on those.

I still had fun for a while, but once I got to the point where I was just looking for incremental stat upgrades, on the same stats, for hundreds of millions of gold it got boring... and that's why I'm here.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

The Butchers Cleaver for the win! That insane damage, that incredibly low durability, +10 str? Damn right.

After the fall of Tristram, neighboring towns taught their children the following song (sung to Old McDonald) to keep them from exploring the burnt ruins:


When the Butcher came to Town
D-I-A-B-L-O

Shredded bodies mulch the fields,
D-I-A-B-L-O
Victimized by what he wields
D-I-A-B-L-O
With a hack hack here, and a whack whack there,
Here a hack, there a whack, everywhere a hack hack,
When the Butcher came to town
D-I-A-B-L-O

On their way down to the pits
D-I-A-B-L-O
He hacked them all to tiny bits
D-I-A-B-L-O
With a leg bone here, and an arm bone there,
Here a skull, there a skull, everywhere a rib cage,
When the butcher came to town,
D-I-A-B-L-O

How he portaled, No one knows
D-I-A-B-L-O
He likes his meat fresh and it shows
D-I-A-B-L-O
With a rogue ear here, and a mage heart there,
Here a brain, there a brain, everywhere a bloodstain
When the Butcher came to town,
D-I-A-B-L-O

Who will make him serve his time?
D-I-A-B-L-O
No heroes there to judge his crime,
D-I-A-B-L-O
With a pink dress here, and a striped scalp there,
Here a peg, there a leg, everywhere the same beg,
When the butcher came to town
D-I-A-B-L-O

interesting view scrotie

not sure if this has been shared yet but here's an economist's view of how D3 screwed up

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-21/diablo-3-case-virtual-hyperinflation

think there are some points there worth considering adding to your write up (and maybe bernanke should read some of that too...)

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JahIthBer89 wrote:

The self-correcting nature of the economy in this game is something that should really be acknowledged.

People always complain that it's better to "buy" items than to craft them, but they fail to realize that we're using the very same currency to do both. If you trade off 10 chaos orbs for an item, you're merely trading 10 rare rerolls. Nothing more, nothing less. If, at any point, it becomes more profitable to craft an item than to pay market price for it, the economy will reflect that. Maps skew this pattern a bit because most build have a wide variety of mods that they can or will run, while equippable items are a bit more specific.

Having a hard time explaining what I mean, but the point is that currency items aren't just arbitrarily valuable. The economy in this game is nothing short of genius.

Its never better to use currency. You can alwyas trade for something far better than you can make. Trust me. Thats why I have always wondered, as long as I played this game, why currency is valued so cheaply. A good rare worth wearing is probably what? A couple alchs or chaos? Thats nothing if you try to use it. You are never better off using your currency and it takes a long time to learn that. You can always trade for better, far cheaper.

Crafting with orbs is far more fun, but its just a quick way to waste your resources. Case in point: back in closed beta, before my friend quit, he had amassed a ton of currency, and decided to use it all because he was quitting. Here is the thread:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/20893/page/1

As you can see, 1500 rolls and he got literally nothing. 1500 rolls. Got like 6 items total that was even worth having. You are never better off using your currency. It does get boring never crafting anything though.

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dlrr wrote:

interesting view scrotie

not sure if this has been shared yet but here's an economist's view of how D3 screwed up

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-21/diablo-3-case-virtual-hyperinflation

think there are some points there worth considering adding to your write up (and maybe bernanke should read some of that too...)

I feel the author of this article makes a core mistake which, ironically, is perhaps one made by Diablo 3's developers as well: a game is a game, not real life. In real life, the design of an economy is to create the best possible flow, to make things the right level of easy; in a game, the design of an economy is to create the best possible challenge, to make things the right level of hard. "More critically, though, whether structured as auctions or exchanges, markets must be allowed to operate freely, without caps, floors, or other artificialities."... really? Keep in mind that the author intends that statement to apply to real-money transactions as well! The piece compares the hyperinflation in Diablo 3 with Zimbabwe and Berlin, when it should be comparing them to games like Monopoly, The Settlers of Catan, and poker. How do these games handle sinks and faucets? Imagine if one of those three games went on forever, never ending; what would the game be like? And most importantly, what mechanics are in those games to keep trading between players interesting?

In short, the article is focused solely on solving Diablo 3's problem of hyperinflation, but never goes to ask the question: If there was only marginal inflation in Diablo 3, as usual for most ARPG economies, would the game still be an enjoyable experience? I believe the answer to that question is a resounding "no," the core reason being Diablo 3's inability to capitalize on the game-design value of limited information (which poker does a brilliant job of capturing).

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Destructodave wrote:

Its never better to use currency. You can alwyas trade for something far better than you can make. Trust me. Thats why I have always wondered, as long as I played this game, why currency is valued so cheaply. A good rare worth wearing is probably what? A couple alchs or chaos? Thats nothing if you try to use it. You are never better off using your currency and it takes a long time to learn that. You can always trade for better, far cheaper.

It's not that currency is never worth using; it's that it's never worth using unless you are getting maximum bang for your buck. If you have an itemlevel 79 Vaal Regalia, capable of the best possible affixes... worth the currency. If you have a Shipyard Map... worth the currency. Unfortunately, all other uses of orbs are judged against this maximum possible value-per-use, rendering orbs pretty useless from a value perspective if used on gear with an itemlevel below 70.

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Destructodave wrote:

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JahIthBer89 wrote:

The self-correcting nature of the economy in this game is something that should really be acknowledged.

People always complain that it's better to "buy" items than to craft them, but they fail to realize that we're using the very same currency to do both. If you trade off 10 chaos orbs for an item, you're merely trading 10 rare rerolls. Nothing more, nothing less. If, at any point, it becomes more profitable to craft an item than to pay market price for it, the economy will reflect that. Maps skew this pattern a bit because most build have a wide variety of mods that they can or will run, while equippable items are a bit more specific.

Having a hard time explaining what I mean, but the point is that currency items aren't just arbitrarily valuable. The economy in this game is nothing short of genius.

Its never better to use currency. You can alwyas trade for something far better than you can make. Trust me. Thats why I have always wondered, as long as I played this game, why currency is valued so cheaply. A good rare worth wearing is probably what? A couple alchs or chaos? Thats nothing if you try to use it. You are never better off using your currency and it takes a long time to learn that. You can always trade for better, far cheaper.

Crafting with orbs is far more fun, but its just a quick way to waste your resources. Case in point: back in closed beta, before my friend quit, he had amassed a ton of currency, and decided to use it all because he was quitting. Here is the thread:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/20893/page/1

As you can see, 1500 rolls and he got literally nothing. 1500 rolls. Got like 6 items total that was even worth having. You are never better off using your currency. It does get boring never crafting anything though.

I think he got incredibly unlucky and this was way back in the days where the mod pool was likely vastly different. I always make large returns by alching whites.