One-week "Resistance Penalty Testing" Hardcore Ladder Race
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What I would like to know is whether party boosting tactics are going to be addressed. Plenty of us know the tricks employed this time through, and it's very discouraging.
I, for one, join a race like this to demonstrate some concept or another. Placing top 20 would validate my idea. My goal for last time was to demonstrate an A/PA archer build that falls well outside the bounds of "normal", but I know has a great deal of power. Uses crit weakness, which I hoped to demonstrate as the strongest offensive curse in the game given the right conditions (chris is being misquoted as saying it's "garbage and nobody would ever use it") Didn't reach that goal, came pretty damn close though. Meantime those of us actually playing the game are treated with some kind of fond nostalgia. Like, these guys are cute - I wish we could actually relax and enjoy this game, too! But there's an underlying compulsion to compete. And with the .... tactics being employed all around, good luck. Bird had an amazing suggestion for you, GGG. Diablo 2 1.09's XP sharing system. Eliminate the range requirement for XP sharing. Groups aren't anonymous in this game, so you won't have the problems with that system that they had. On the plus side, it'd all but eliminate party boosting. Let a man walk alone - Let him commit no sin. Let him bear few wishes, Like an elephant in the forest. Last edited by Zakaluka#1191 on Sep 21, 2012, 8:02:03 AM
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" Great question. Also, I think we should stick with the term instance boosting, it seems more specific to the mechanic used. Party boosting should mean any range of mechanics which separate a party's potential over a solo players (waypoint sharing, boss killing, loot sharing, instance boosting, etc). Personally, instance boosting feels like an unnatural aspect of the game, however, there is a side of me which thinks it adds another dimension to the complexity of team race play and for that reason it could stay. Keeping in mind that to instance boost efficiently you still need to be able to kill the higher HP mobs. (this makes damage worth much more than defence because if you progressed normally through high level instances to gain higher xp, those mobs would have less defence and more damage compared with mobs in a boosted instance which would have more defence (health) and less damage (damage isn't increased at all for extra players in an instance, but health is.)) Last edited by duolc#4211 on Sep 21, 2012, 8:16:18 AM
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" You raise a valid point. Some of the ways I expect people to try it this time around are doomed to fail, because in "boosting" someone always gets a benefit and someone always gets the shaft. You can't really "boost" a whole party at the same time. The person with the best gear takes all the benefit. But, if it's done right, the person being boosted has extremely high efficiency. In normal play you'll attack, move, attack, move, always searching for and clicking on new targets. If you're being boosted, it becomes: attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, move. attack..... down time becomes negligible compared to uptime. That's a tremendous boost. You need the gear to support it, sure, but the only way to make your grind more efficient is to find someone to boost for you. Normal party play won't be able to compete, when a team of 6 can choose a person they want to put at the top of the league. Let a man walk alone - Let him commit no sin. Let him bear few wishes, Like an elephant in the forest. Last edited by Zakaluka#1191 on Sep 21, 2012, 9:09:45 AM
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Chicken hack/loader.exe/Party Exp Balance
TLDR: Incoming wall of text. If you are't super into being anti-hack I wouldn't bother reading this... I'll front load this by saying I spent many many years playing diablo 2 hardcore classic. I finished most ladder seasons in the top 16. (I mention this only to demonstrate that I played a LOT) So Far I have 2 concerns: 1.) Chicken Hack I would like to see a 2-3 second timer added to any exit. I know there are a lot of legit players who alt+F4. I did some menu/exit to log in saves myself this last race, so I'm certainly no more pro than anyone else. I don't have a problem with that, but what I really don't like is chicken hack. It was widely used in Diablo 2 hardcore. While I didn't agree with a lot of what was done in Diablo 3, the exit delay timer was a great idea...although it doesn't have to be excessive. Just long enough to break any auto-exit hack. *Hack functions by auto-exiting you if you fall below a certain pre-programmed hit-point level* Really hurts the whole legitimacy of HC. 2-3 seconds is really all of the delay it takes to break this and render it not an issue. While some may not like this at first, I think the majority of hc players will agree with me in the long run, this is a must if hc is going to have any real integrity as a format. I'm not saying people are even using any programs like this yet...but give it time and if there isn't an exit delay timer, and they will. ------------------------------------------------------ 2.) Loader.exe/Party Exp balance Back in D2 It finally got to the point that the most effecient way to level was to either solo or 2 player clear full games. All the top level ladder players got multiple computers or loader programs. They would load characters into a game and then proceed to 1-2 player clear everything. The same thing will happen in PoE if changes are not made. The reason this is a problem is because it absolutely destroys the whole social aspect of the game. You can only compete at a high level if you DON'T play with others...that realllly sucks. Part of what makes these types of games fun over time is group play with big groups. To prevent loader becoming the most efficient method for leveling and to better balance party exp I believe the exp formula and party mechanics might be redone as such: Exp gain is ALWAYS calculated as if everyone in the party is leveling together as a group....you can never get more than "your fair share." If you separate from the party and solo an area with 6 people also in that area you still only get the same fraction of exp that you would otherwise get if the party stayed together. You still have to be within a couple of screens of each other to get exp on kills. (I like area wide exp sharing but it does also leave the option of parking characters in the corner and leveling them with no risk...so I can see how some wouldn't like that...so my first stated method above may be better) With this method you could solo or group within a party, but you couldn't just load 5 lvl 1's into the corner of a map and proceed to clear it and get godly exp. Granted you would still get an exp boost, but your boost would be no better than a player who is actually running with 6 real players...and you would be disadvantaged because the 6 real players should be killing a lot faster than 1 solo player. And the whole idea is to disadvantage people who use loader, because if that is the most effective way to play, 80% of the top players will do it, and this will become a very anti-social game at the top of the ladder...and that kind of super sucks....GGG please...help. You are making an amazing game... If you want the top finishers in your ladders to be legit players and keep the game somewhat social you must re-balance the party exp system and set the mechanics to NOT encourage loader fill ins. Also, high level characters should NOT get a substantial exp boost from leveling with much lower level characters. Basically whatever exp gain you would get from leveling with someone your same level, should be the only exp boost you can get regardless of the other party members level. It doesn't get better the lower level your party member(s) are. Otherwise players will just exploit playing with lower level players and eventually follower bot will become a big part of the equation. I've noticed you guys create systems that naturally battle bots/hacks. So these are the systems I would use to naturally fight these specific exploits/hacks...naturally I'm a noob and you guys are the pros so I don't expect you to adopt my systems or even fully read them...but at least be aware you gotz some major problems comin' down the pike if you take no action on this.... P.S. Summons...do they get the resistance penalty? lol ty Looking for more guild members for races/4 month hc leagues, pm for info Last edited by TEBird#3705 on Sep 21, 2012, 10:45:29 AM
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" Sadly I am pro the "Alt F4" mechanic as I find it takes skill to actually utilize it. Most of the time I'm just too damn retarded to hit the keys in time. In D2 I was first introduced to "Chicken" with "Stings" map hack and I actually used it for a few weeks. After a few deaths despite the chicken I ditched it and will never use such a system again. Chicken makes a player lazy and never fear it will eventually lead to death in any case. On the subject of "Map Hack" I so hope we never see them in PoE but I fear they will eventually stick their ugly heads out. Regarding your other two paragraphs quoted above - Those are exactly what I have been saying for the past week or two. It is the only way I believe to put a stop to the antisocial aspect of levelling. In the last ladder race my level 69 shadow died in an instance where one of our party was constantly running off to get solo experience. Yes I could have and should have left the instance - so I blame no one other than myself. I'm BACK :)
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I'd love to know if anyone in the top 20 reaches end-game without farming (or without farming any more than they used to). I'm really not sure what this race league will prove. More farming will negate the resistance penalty.
Ledge Coves Fellshrine Western Forest Waterfall Cave lvl 2 boring IGN @dime Last edited by dime#0720 on Sep 21, 2012, 5:03:00 PM
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" It's about monster balance and class balance. Should merciless pyramid be balanced around 75% resist all, or 50%, or 60%? What about level 60 maps? Does the affix pool need adjustment? (grind time to end game should be metric here) Will templar/mara have an undue advantage with their access to significant numbers of resist nodes early on? Let a man walk alone -
Let him commit no sin. Let him bear few wishes, Like an elephant in the forest. |
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" Except that farming for gear is only 1 out of 9 different ways to deal with the resists penalty: -Grinding for resist gear -Specialty Flasks -Mana/Life flasks with resistances -Endurance Charges -Passive Tree -Bandit Quest -Purity Aura -Weapon Swap gear with resists -Carrying resist rings in inventory to swap out Clever players will find many ways to adapt, not just grinding for armor that has good resists. There are so many options that are currently ignored by most players because they are simply never needed. Now all those options will actually be important. Why have the devs code all these options for resistances if we keep the current system where 90% of those options are ignored? |
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@Axebane
This is kind of exaggerated - 9, really? You only named gear, flasks, purity, bandit choice and passive tree. 5 if you ask me. I already use gear, flasks, passive tree and I do make the choice with bandits. So the change for me means that I will need to drop some aura for purity, I guess. I am looking forward this race. I don't plan nolife this but it will be interesing to try this ancient concept of elemental penalties once again. Not that I find it fun or creative, more like nostalgic. Something like playing Prince of Persia. Not something you do because it is so good but because it was good once. Edit:
What I mean by Prince of Persia
 Edit2: oops my math :) I forgot about endurance charges. But I use those already as well. ✠ ✠ Last edited by wiggin#5896 on Sep 21, 2012, 5:40:56 PM
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" You saying its 5, is like me saying its 1. "Getting more resists" You telling me that you cant get more resists from passives? Or using more specialized flasks? Changing up your gear to get more resists? I think this update will help point out some build issues some classes have, and how some are overpowered. I also believe it will give people more even options to choose for passive points, resist focus, bandit quest, along with other factors. Right now resists are very easy to get (as Chris stated in the OP) off a few pieces of gear. Why shouldnt it be a more valued choice? |
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