Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

In the end it doesn't really matter what any of us think. The devs make the call and it looks like options is the way that looting went.

/thread.

Stop trying to shut down the discussion with this "its all over go home" B.S.

I'm seeing very poor distribution of games and for the most part, just about exactly what I predicted: 0-5% FFA games and often ONLY permanent allocation games on the lists already.

Is GGG happy with that? There is plenty of things they can do to balance it out more.

[edit]

I did get a private reply from Chris stating that "If us changing looting timers/rules results in a system that we don't like, we'll definitely change it back again. It's not a one-way process, and I hope we find a good compromise in the end."

Everyone expected there to be far more permanent, are you surprised? Some people believed that there would be NO FFA games which so far has not happened.

I believe that they are going to stick with options based on what they said, and if that's true then there isn't really much to discuss.

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iamstryker wrote:

I believe that they are going to stick with options based on what they said, and if that's true then there isn't really much to discuss.

The first part isn't necessarily an unrealistic prognosis. If we're taking bets, it's clear where the smart money is.

The second part is absolutely false. Pointing out their mistake (or defending it) is not pointless, as it could cause (or prevent) GGG from re-examining their decision. Just because something is more likely doesn't make it a deterministic certainty.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

I believe that they are going to stick with options based on what they said, and if that's true then there isn't really much to discuss.

The first part isn't necessarily an unrealistic prognosis. If we're taking bets, it's clear where the smart money is.

The second part is absolutely false. Pointing out their mistake (or defending it) is not pointless, as it could cause (or prevent) GGG from re-examining their decision. Just because something is more likely doesn't make it a deterministic certainty.

Judging by the fact that different people are using the different options it definitely feels like it was for the best! Everyone wins. FFA players win. Instanced players win. Middle ground timer folks even win!

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thepmrc wrote:

Judging by the fact that different people are using the different options it definitely feels like it was for the best! Everyone wins. FFA players win. Instanced players win. Middle ground timer folks even win!

Wrong. Instanced players lose, because they're missing out on a narrative mechanic. FFA players lose, because although they're using a narrative mechanic, it's imbalanced towards ninjas, because instead of trying to repair FFA loot while maintaining FFA-ness, the problem was just swept under a rug. What actually happens is everyone loses, but people get to choose how, so there's an illusion of choice.

If you haven't read my "Dishonour Among Thieves," (previous page) you probably should.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Judging by the fact that different people are using the different options it definitely feels like it was for the best! Everyone wins. FFA players win. Instanced players win. Middle ground timer folks even win!

Wrong. Instanced players lose, because they're missing out on a narrative mechanic. FFA players lose, because although they're using a narrative mechanic, it's imbalanced towards ninjas, because instead of trying to repair FFA loot while maintaining FFA-ness, the problem was just swept under a rug. What actually happens is everyone loses, but people get to choose how, so there's an illusion of choice.

If you haven't read my "Dishonour Among Thieves," (previous page) you probably should.

Well, I will 100% disagree with you. I don't play games for 'narrative'. I never played an ARPG for story/plot/RP. I want to enjoy playing the game and loot options allow me to do that. I also have several friends who totally favor instanced looting, they most certainly did not loose as they also don't give two shits about the 'narrative mechanic' as you put it. They care about having an enjoyable cooperative multiplayer experience which this allows them to do.

As the devs mentioned, the game needs to be a game, and fun, first and foremost. You cannot sacrifice the enjoyability for 'narrative mechanics'.

EDIT: 'Illusion of choice' may be one of the most infuriating phrases in existence. Everytime I hear it I just think of JW and his arrogant ass telling everyone that D2 was actually crap and their memories of the game were pure nostalgia...

Has it been suggested that Hardcore modes use Short allocation and Softcore modes use Instanced loot?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Wrong. Instanced players lose, because they're missing out on a narrative mechanic.

This is downright silly. Instanced players don't give a crap about any so called narrative mechanic. So how in the world are they missing out on something they don't care about?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

FFA players lose, because although they're using a narrative mechanic, it's imbalanced towards ninjas, because instead of trying to repair FFA loot while maintaining FFA-ness, the problem was just swept under a rug. What actually happens is everyone loses, but people get to choose how, so there's an illusion of choice.

Explain how its any more imbalanced now than it was before? There was nothing that they could "repair" about FFA, it is what it is. There definitely is no illusion of choice. The choice is real and most players appreciate the choice.

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thepmrc wrote:

EDIT: 'Illusion of choice' may be one of the most infuriating phrases in existence. Everytime I hear it I just think of JW and his arrogant ass telling everyone that D2 was actually crap and their memories of the game were pure nostalgia...

Quoted for taking the words right out of my mouth

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iamstryker wrote:

Instanced players don't give a crap about any so called narrative mechanic.

They should.

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iamstryker wrote:

Explain how its any more imbalanced now than it was before?

It isn't; it's just as imbalanced as it once was. The correct solution was (and is) a Reddit-style player rating system to punish ninjas.

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thepmrc wrote:

'Illusion of choice' may be one of the most infuriating phrases in existence. Everytime I hear it I just think of JW and his arrogant ass telling everyone that D2 was actually crap and their memories of the game were pure nostalgia...

That's an interesting juxtaposition of ideas. Diablo 2 was emphatically not crap, especially considering when it was launched. However, as someone who still plays D2 off and on, I'm a little amazed how some people nostalgia it up. I've heard "EVERY skill is usable" (nowadays only one class is usable), "free full respecs" (technically correct, but only with one of the last patches), "great economy" (dupes, d2jsp). I think the problem Jay had was that, in trying to improve upon D2, he found its flaws, but was continually frustrated trying to discuss those flaws with those who saw the game as perfect... and that such arguments polarized him into a devil's advocate role he couldn't break free of.

Farming merc ledge earlier today.
Decided to make public party and set FFA.
People join, can't keep up, get no loot, leave.
How hard is it to just keep up with the player that's killing all the mobs? Thing is, if one straggler survives from a pack by being outside of my AoE or something, I'll just leave it and move on. You know, efficient farming. But they fall behind mopping up strays. And they take longer to kill that 1 stray that it takes me to kill the whole next pack, so they just fall further and further behind.

So from my experience, a lot of people don't like FFA farming, because they don't know how to farm.

[edit] CI discharge OP!

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

They should.

How crazy it was for me to decide what I like. Please tell me how to enjoy the game. I obviously have no idea what I am doing, I really need your help.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The correct solution was (and is) a Reddit-style player rating system to punish ninjas.

Punish them for what? Playing FFA the way that its intended??