Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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XCodes wrote:
Like you have room to talk. All you've been doing for pages is taunting Vooodu like 5-year-old-schoolyard-bully wannabie.

All I've ever done is responded in kind. That's the simplest and easiest way to handle trolls. Stuff their own medicine down their throats. Works like a charm.

The best part is that he's so desperate for attention. I actually WANT him to continue posting here, every single day. And he's more than happy to oblige. It's win-win.
GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428
Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542
How about increasing the range from which you can loot items? That way there's no mad rush to pick up what's yours.
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olop4444 wrote:
How about increasing the range from which you can loot items? That way there's no mad rush to pick up what's yours.

That would definitely help ameliorate the pressing need to charge headlong into disaster in order to claim items, true. But it would also serve to facilitate the ninja process: just wait for the timer to expire, then claim everything in sight.
GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428
Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542
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Xaxyx wrote:
All I've ever done is responded in kind. That's the simplest and easiest way to handle trolls. Stuff their own medicine down their throats. Works like a charm.

The best part is that he's so desperate for attention. I actually WANT him to continue posting here, every single day. And he's more than happy to oblige. It's win-win.
Define "works." If you mean it helps them troll, then you're right.
Hi there,

Please refrain from posting off topic or ad-hominem replies. Please only make reasonable arguments that are relevant to the topic.

Thanks,
Bex
I'm glad you are still reading guys (GGG). This is a direct message to you, in this thread, as it pertains to loot. Semi-long.

Spoiler
Personally, I have no argument to give, only my feelings regarding the knowledge that loot options are coming (via development manifesto). Which has everything to do with this thread.

Simply put, I feel you (GGG) have buckled to something that goes against what you wanted to do with the game. Chris himself says you guys are ninjas. You love FFA. Krip Q&A from last year when this question came up if you are wondering where he said this.

On the Overview page, this is what it says,

"Path of Exile is an online Action RPG set in the dark fantasy world of Wraeclast. We're a small independent team of hardcore gamers based in New Zealand and have created Path of Exile as the game that we'd want to play ourselves. It is designed around a strong barter-based online item economy, deep character customisation, competitive PvP and ladder races. The game is completely free and will never be "pay to win". Path of Exile is currently in Open Beta!"

Now, while it doesn't mention loot, it does mention that you want to make a game you yourselves want to play. Yet, you are betraying this by offering loot options.

When it comes to this game, I recently read a post that made the most amazing observation I've seen:

"When will everyone realize that this game wasn't made for the majority. It was made for the minority." Paraphrased, but it's what was said.

I back this statement up with what you yourselves said. You are hardcore players and are making the game you would want to play. This means there is no game for you to play that's like this. And this shows that a game like this is not wanted by a majority of players because if it were, it would likely be monopolized by now and exist.

As you also said, this game was made for the hardcore. Hardcore is minority as well. I'm not going to bother defining hardcore, as it's unnecessary for this post.

I've said all this to try and have other people (and you) understand my position in saying what I'm about to say. Context, if you will.

If I were to want to buy something from you (I do), it would be because, A. I want whatever I buy, and B. I want to support you.

B is more important. Far more important to me, explicitly. However, I have less of a reason to support you now. Essentially, this is what I'm thinking:

"I want to throw money at them, because I like what they are making. However, this shows if they are pushed enough by enough people, they will betray their vision. The thing I want to see be real. The very reason I will give them my money. So, why give it to them, if I can't be certain it will be used as I had hoped it would."

I understand that you will alienate someone by making this hard decision. Whether it be many people with FFA, or few people like me with options, but a choice must be made.

The thing is that I feel like I should be the one who isn't alienated because I consider myself to be your target audience. I am a hardcore player. I love everything about this game that makes it difficult, challenging, complex, etc etc. I spend as much time as I can afford playing it. I'm not very good, but I don't think that factors into this.

That's my view on it, and pretty much how I feel about it. I'd rather loot options not be in the game, or at the very least, be separated entirely by League so I would never be affected by it in Hardcore (or Cut Throat, when it's here).

I may be in the minority, but that actually should be a good thing for this. And I'm feeling like it's not, which is the problem.


If you read all of it (and I'm fairly certain you will), thank you. I hope to be following the Path of the Exile for years to come, but I don't know if I should bother if I can't trust you to do what you say you want to do.

Last edited by TremorAcePV#7356 on Apr 24, 2013, 4:18:02 AM
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TremorAcePV wrote:

Now, while it doesn't mention loot, it does mention that you want to make a game you yourselves want to play. Yet, you are betraying this by offering loot options.



This assumes that once they put in looting options they no longer want to play the game. Have you considered that they are now happy with the idea of including full FFA and would be happy to play that mode since they enjoy it? I think your just picking and choosing like many other players are doing. You make it sound like the devs can't be wrong about something or change their minds about something. Have you really agreed with every decision that they have ever made? Is the game completely perfect right now? No, its changing and when they make changes that they didn't know that they would make its not a betrayal, its a natural process in development.


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TremorAcePV wrote:
but I don't know if I should bother if I can't trust you to do what you say you want to do.



They decide pretty often that they want to do things based on player feedback. This issue is no different. Just because their small group would prefer to play FFA only, doesn't mean that they have to force that onto their audience. IMO their vision is the overall experience, if looting options was actually against their vision then they wouldn't be making the decision to include looting options. I think they realize that its not nearly important enough of an issue to force their playstyle onto the whole community. To me its the same as hardcore mode. They know it would be foolish to make the game hardcore mode only because that would only appeal to a smaller portion of players.

Also, Once the devs add in looting options I consider that a final decision on the matter. I really doubt the devs are going to add in looting options and then change their minds and take them away later. So those of you who can't handle that decision should probably not stick around.

If you like FFA then play it. Other people playing something else doesn't need to concern you. I can only theorize that your upset there are no longer easy prey in public games who don't want to compete. Thats a selfish reason to support FFA only.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

"When will everyone realize that this game wasn't made for the majority. It was made for the minority." Paraphrased, but it's what was said.

I back this statement up with what you yourselves said. You are hardcore players and are making the game you would want to play. This means there is no game for you to play that's like this. And this shows that a game like this is not wanted by a majority of players because if it were, it would likely be monopolized by now and exist.

As you also said, this game was made for the hardcore. Hardcore is minority as well. I'm not going to bother defining hardcore, as it's unnecessary for this post.



Everything that makes this game "hardcore" in any sense of the word will still exist even with looting options. People like Slayer for example are happy that they will get to play Full FFA which the devs decided early on was impossible to offer as the only mode because too many players didn't like it. Was it a betrayal for them to change Full FFA even though thats what they liked? Heck no.

GGG is trying to balance pleasing a large audience while also maintaining their development goals for the game. Its a tricky process and they have to give and take to do it. The loot system was not worth the trouble. Nothing like full respecs or the death penalty which have big implications if they are changed too much. FFA was not a big enough part of the game to justify keeping it around as the only option.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

The thing is that I feel like I should be the one who isn't alienated because I consider myself to be your target audience. I am a hardcore player. I love everything about this game that makes it difficult, challenging, complex, etc etc. I spend as much time as I can afford playing it. I'm not very good, but I don't think that factors into this.



I also consider myself to be their target audience. I beleive I am hardcore because I love the game. I also love everything about the game that makes it difficult, challenging, complex. I also spend as much time as I can afford playing it.

Did you think only FFA supporters feel that way?
Standard Forever
Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Apr 24, 2013, 5:21:57 AM
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iamstryker wrote:

Le snip


As I said, that was a direct message to GGG. While you can reply to it all you want, I'm not interested in your input on how I perceive their choices. I'm not discussing anything in this regard.

Your opinion is your own and that's fine. Have it. But it means jack squat to me as it will change nothing because your opinion is for you, mine for me. I just want you to realize that so if you decide to write a long post again in response to me, you'll know what your time is worth.
Last edited by TremorAcePV#7356 on Apr 24, 2013, 5:13:33 AM
You assume I care at all if you respond back or even read it. If I have something to say then I will.

If your message is to GGG only then send a PM or an e-mail.
Standard Forever
Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Apr 24, 2013, 5:15:18 AM
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iamstryker wrote:
You assume I care at all if you respond back or even read it. If I have something to say then I will.

If your message is to GGG only then send a PM or an e-mail.


You asked me direct questions in your post which I skimmed. :| And as I said, that's fine, if you wish to say something, you may. I just wanted you to know I wouldn't be reading it if you cared, which I assumed you did since you asked direct questions.

My message matters for everyone. If they see my reasoning and agree with it, they could change their mind or at least understand why I say what I do. Their input on what I say won't change much for me as everything I say is based on things about me or GGG, and not anything else.

They're free to give input on what I say, but as I said to you, I want them to realize it won't change much for me.

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