Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.
" Ugh... NooOoooOoo there isn't. Mental issues are you own problems.. Not mine. Feel free to try and bully me with out violence. And watch me laugh as i walk away. ....lulz. DurrHHh,, IM gonna bully you with my MIND... DurrHHhhH... " WTF are you even talking about about...? LMAO. Last edited by Vooodu#7002 on Apr 23, 2013, 10:32:57 AM
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" Uh, yes there is. Pretending you're not a bully doesn't fool anyone, Vooodu. Even yourself. " Your problems are emotional, Vooodu, not mental. Not hugged enough as a child, I suspect. Or too much. One or the other, anyway. " False equivalency again. In the scenario at hand, loot's been stolen. Walking away changes nothing, as it will just happen again, in another public game, with another griefer. The only recourse is to simply not play in public games at all. But we'd prefer an environment where players are encouraged, rather than discouraged, to play together. And that's what we're going to get. Not just despite people like you; but *because of* people like you. " Dance, monkey, dance! GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428 Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542 |
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" "Psychological abuse, also referred to as emotional abuse or mental abuse, is a form of abuse characterized by a person subjecting or exposing another to behavior that may result in psychological trauma, including anxiety, chronic depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder. Such abuse is often associated with situations of power imbalance, such as abusive relationships, bullying, and abuse in the workplace." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_abuse GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428 Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542 |
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Games by their very definition are set ups for conflict that evoke emotions, NOT to make everyone happy, winners and losers based on skill are often primary ingredients. FUN is overcoming obstacles NOT the lack of obstacles.
Giving people the choice to opt out of a difficult game mechanic is the dumbest thing GGG could possibly do. I’m still 100% convinced. Instanced loot WAS the fatal flaw in D3, and the reason why it will never compare to D2. When I said I played D2 for ten years what I meant was that every reset I would go back and play HC ladders, either until my character died or I got bored and sick of the rune dupes (usually before hitting lv 92-93) Why? Why go back to such an old game when there are thousands of others to choose from? Because it was in fact, still goddamn fun. Every season I would see old acquaintances appearing on my friends list and some of the best gaming around would ensue. PoE for many of us has captured what D2 had, and more. I would argue that ultimately it was about loot, the loot competition, and friendly pacts to share loot and beat the system. So what is fun? What is this ‘evoking of emotions’? First, you need to understand something important. CONTRAST: Simply put, gain is not rewarding unless there is also loss or the potential of loss. Defeating a difficult foe means nothing unless there was some risk involved; the same principal applies to loot. These things cannot be separated and still have the same value. (also the same in xp loss/ character death mechanics) If something falls for someone else and everyone is off screen I might feel apprehensive about taking it. I think what if they come back for it and see me grabbing something they needed? I ‘feel’ apprehension. Lets say a rare 2h mace falls, and I’m the only melee in the party and that’s my chosen weapon but someone else got it? I am curious what it was, I ask “can you show me that 2h?” - I might be ‘angry’ they won’t show me, I might be ‘happy’ if they drop it, I might be ‘jealous’ of they show me but say they will keep it. There are literally dozens of other examples for situations like these that make a person ‘feel’ emotions – some good and some bad, all revolving around LOOT. All of it eliminated by this ‘no-tension’ or NON-FFA mode! This ‘it’ is in fact game immersion we are talking about, the player ‘feels’ what the character experiences and much if not all of it will be lost when every public game uses this mode. It seems to me that many players are afraid of these negative possibilities and want to eliminate it; they are victims of fear itself. Now we are all going to have to suffer the game changing modifications because some people ‘just won’t try it’ – yes you know who you are. You won’t play the game the way it was designed and now it has to change because of… I’m sorry there is no other way to put it, I know it’s an awful word, but it’s true. BABIES. What PoE needs is a wading pool for people to learn and make the transition then, not a sweeping change affecting all games default, HC and races. … So everyone knows about pacts where you make friends and agree to share loot or at least not compete with each other’s timers? Friendships are forged this way. (notice they get to do so by agreement, not by selecting ‘options’ when making a game and forcing it on anyone who joins) I’m still in touch with people I met over ten years ago because of FFA loot in D2. However, it happens all the time and often without words and even among strangers: I’m playing in the one week HC race and last night I was running with a group that was just awesome – the three of us fighting for our lives descending Lunaris temple in cruel difficulty heading for Piety. (all with three day old found total crap gear) I made it a point to not pick up ANYTHING that didn’t fall for me. After a while I noticed that both of them were doing the same for me no big deal I can almost always get my loot if I wanted it anyway, I was just happy to be in a good group and wanted to show my gratitude. Well guess what happened? A major fucking brawl breaks out. We had three champions with different auras stacking, monsters everywhere and simply no room for error – everyone dropping totems and curses and dashing through doors as the last moment as we wait for flasks to kick in and guess what falls for me while my health was at 1/10 full and in full retreat. Both of them walked right past it and continued on… just awesome! I would not have blamed them if they took it, it was the one time I really could not beat the timer - being nice does pay off. It would have just been an emotionless ‘plunk sound’ of picking it up if the game was set to ‘no tension’ mode. I promise you it was anything but emotionless. |
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" Please explain how any of that garbage you posted has anything to do with you getting "Bullied" over freakin loot drops... " So now im a bully? :D. CooooOOOol. Funny, i've never ever been called a bully in my entire life. But, now that some kid with serious mental issues tells me im a bully on some forum thread about loot drops in a ARPG. Well, that must be seriously TRUE... And really... Loot was stolen? So, ffa drops make you feel as if loot has been stolen from you and you think this is bullying... And you think im the one with the issues? Please tell me more. Because the more you type the more i realise im a total idiot for even carrying on this conversation with someone as looney as you. Id rather be a 'dancing monkey' than a dog lickin his own ass complaining about why his tounge smells like a dog shit constantly. I guess you could say that that dog got bullied by his own ass. Ass.... MUST STOP READING THIS THREAD.... Id block myself if i could.. lmao. Last edited by Vooodu#7002 on Apr 23, 2013, 12:36:39 PM
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These ffa-lovers are so pathetic, they whine soo much now that the dev team decided to give loot options and they repeat the same old utter and completely irrational crap from hundreds page ago.
Shallow broken records. Last edited by mobutu#5362 on Apr 23, 2013, 12:39:35 PM
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" Fixed... To make more sense. Is this thread even about loot anymore? Seems to me this is where people come to bitch about me now. Cause im such a terrible person. I eat babies and kick puppys.. Discuss. Last edited by Vooodu#7002 on Apr 23, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
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" But does everyone share the same feelings and attachment to FFA as you. No sir. I still do not see how your post about emotions is an argument to oppose what has been stated already? Oh, and let me quote you for a sec: " FUN is subjective to each of us. I for one do not consider FFA an obstacle or a challenge, but I still find it fun. Why is that? I find instanced loot fun as well. Why is that? They each offer something different to the table. If you're telling me that in your post you had an argument, then please point it out to me. Also, somewhat relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0 TL;DR: If you're telling me options will impact the fun you were just describing, then I do not know what to say to you. I would be willing to counter any points you would like to see a counter to, but you're going to have to outright list them like we did so we can be clear on what you are suggesting in that long response you have written. Thanks. IGN: Mibuwolf
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" In a PvE game players are not obstacles. Monsters are. If, instead, the game were explicitly designed for PvP -- which it isn't -- then you'd certainly have a point. But at the same time, players would be going in expecting to fight against one another. That's not the expectation in this game. Nor is it a mandatory requisite to succeed; as players can and do play cooperatively in multiplayer, should they so choose to do so. " There's nothing "difficult" about the game mechanic. Just annoying. Giving players the option of being able to play together without risking getting annoyed by ninja looters will be the best thing that ever happened to this game since launch day. " D3 has tremendous, intrinsic design issues, most of which have nothing to do with its loot system. On the other hand, D3 has nothing to do with this thread. " I agree. D2 is fun. Playing D2 is about seeking fun, just as we would with any game. That's what games are for. " Whereas, I felt it was about loot *collection*, achieving goals, and cooperative play. FFA loot in D2 was less about pitting players against each other and more about adventuring within the scope of the game environment, limited by the of technology of the time. " These things must necessarily be separate, as demonstrated by the simple and obvious fact that players can play solo. Indeed, according to the devs, this game was ORIGINALLY DESIGNED around solo play; multi-player was thrown in afterward (much like Diablo 1, in point of fact). In solo play, there is no risk involved as pertains to loot. Everything that drops, every single item on the floor, is yours. All you risk is your Internet connection severing before you click on it. :p " What you feel in fact is guilt, as you've been found out as a ninja looter. This, and this alone, distinguishes you from most of your thieving compatriots, the majority if which not only experience no guilt whatsoever, but in fact delight in the anguish they inflict on the players that they're stealing from. " None of which speaks at all toward the underlying fact of the matter: it's not your mace. It's theirs. Perhaps they'll offer it to you. Perhaps they won't. Perhaps they'll take a screenshot of themselves throwing the mace away and email it to you out of spite. Who knows? But more importantly: who cares? It's their mace, to do with as they please. THAT is the baseline model of APRGs: you kill monsters, you earn loot. Nowhere in PoE are you able to rummage around in another player's inventory. Nowhere in PoE are you able to rummage around in another player's stash. Nowhere in PoE are you able to murder another player and take his equipment off of his warm, steaming corpse. This is not a PvP game. Why, then, is there still this one, lingering, festering feature of PvP gaming glued unceremoniously to this game's underbelly? There is no reason. And thus, this cancerous tumor will be at last excised. " I don't feel what my character experiences. This is because my character doesn't "experience" anything. He's blips on a screen, a file on someone's hard drive. I'm a real person. He doesn't have experiences; I do. And I'd like my game experience to be pleasant, thank you very much. " Keep using that word, please. The more you mock and ridicule your would-be victims, the stronger our cause becomes. Next, tell us how this thread is full of stupid, and how none, none of our arguments make any sense or hold any merit. Stay on script. " For what must be the millionth time, we're not campaigning for the default game mode to change. All we'd like is the option to avoid bullies, ninja looters and abusers. You know, people like you. " I don't make friends by leaving my wallet on the table and seeing who steals it. Nor do I play games in order to expose myself to similar immaturity and idiocy. Nor is anyone seeking to force you play in a particular game mode (unlike you). " Great story, bro. Would you like all of us to regale you with the tales of the dozens of times that we've had the reverse scenario occur? In any event, it's irrelevant; you can continue to regale us with delightful tales of players all fumbling over one another for loot, or not, even after the devs introduce the new game play option. GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428 Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542 |
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" I don't think it has been about loot since the manifesto came out stating that there would be looting options. Since then it has mostly been you (and your alt accounts) spewing derogatory comments at people who wanted loot options in the first place while they point out your hypocrisy and general worthlessness as a human being. Carry on. |
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