Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

FFA loot would make ME play alone, not with others. It's so frustrating if you are fighting mobs while your teammate decides that picking up loot is way more important.
FFA loot opens up for greed, envy, imbalance and overall mistrust.
I think that FFA loot is the worst. I would go so far to say that FFA loot could kill the game.
So please: No FFA loot.

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One of the biggest problems probably hasn't even been discussed yet...

Well it was actually. The biggest problem is ppl not reading the thread. Sorry for being harsh, but the wothwhile arguments drown in an endless stream of the same primitive ideas.

Regarding why devs want a feedback and simultaneously make loot system fixed: if there is a choice introduced ppl will mainly choose what seems easier or what they got used to in other games. It means that devs in a case of a loot system choice avaliable to players may recieve no real statistic on allocated FFA (even if it is more suitable then others) but NbG mostly or wild FFA. On the other hand, sometimes you have to force ppl to smth good for them, what otherwise they will skip. For example, there is a chance that previous poster despite swearing of no coop with FFA, after trying the game will enjoy AFFA and have fun in multiplyer. We can't know it until we force him and that what the beta is for.

It's hard jumping into a discussion a dozen pages deep ;) I read some to get a jist of what was being said, but not all.

Anyway it's been said in quite a few ways apparently, but co-op play + FFA loot is hard to reconcile.

The game needs to be thought of less as 'coop' and more as 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'.

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Silver wrote:

It’s very true that FFA loot essentially supports selfish behavior and promotes it.

But that’s kind of what GGG wants to support.

Since GGG are expecting to fund the game with cosmetic cash shop items, effectively donations I wonder why they seem to be going out of their way to make it attractive to selfish ar**holes?

Do they think people willing to screw over their team mates for loot are suddenly going to become charitable when it comes to screwing over GGG?

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Fluffy wrote:

Since GGG are expecting to fund the game with cosmetic cash shop items, effectively donations I wonder why they seem to be going out of their way to make it attractive to selfish ar**holes?

Do they think people willing to screw over their team mates for loot are suddenly going to become charitable when it comes to screwing over GGG?

I don't really think that timer FFA makes people selfish or a-holes... I mean D2 has strict FFA looting and we were all fine there more or less. It's just something you get used to.

I think that people want to be proud of their characters and make their representation of themselves as good as possible... possibly moreso if they are all only sorta being cooperative ;)

I think the competition aspect will be ok, and I think that they will get funded ... they just have to keep on thinking outside of the box. If ultimately that means that some people require a more cooperative ladder, I'm sure they could support that with another loot system.

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zeto wrote:

I don't really think that timer FFA makes people selfish or a-holes...

Of course the game mechanics don't make personalities, they are more or less pleasing to and so attract different personalities.

If you design a game for cut-throats you can't really be surprised when the players you attract are happy to cut your throat.

As for charitable funding of the game I predict it won't generate sufficient revenue, but, that's a whole new topic.

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Lichalfred wrote:

Regarding why devs want a feedback and simultaneously make loot system fixed: if there is a choice introduced ppl will mainly choose what seems easier or what they got used to in other games.

Don't forget people choosing to not use an option that has proven to be counter to their enjoyment. For instance, FFA loot.

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It means that devs in a case of a loot system choice avaliable to players may recieve no real statistic on allocated FFA (even if it is more suitable then others) but NbG mostly or wild FFA.

If there is a choice and people aren't choosing to use FFA, that seems like a pretty telling statistic to me. Without being given a choice, though, we'll never know.

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On the other hand, sometimes you have to force ppl to smth good for them, what otherwise they will skip. For example, there is a chance that previous poster despite swearing of no coop with FFA, after trying the game will enjoy AFFA and have fun in multiplyer. We can't know it until we force him and that what the beta is for.

This isn't like eating your vegetables.

If you force players into a certain style, people who don't like that style will insulate themselves from it by avoiding pick-up groups or simply not play. How is either of these outcomes good for the players or the game?

If there's a choice, people may try it and decide for themselves. And that's perfectly fine.

But I disagree with the assertion that FFA loot or players being forced into it is somehow inherently "good." FFA is certainly something that some players prefer, but as we've seen in this thread it's also something that other players do not care for (and at least in my case, not for either of the oversimplified reasons you stated). Saying that there's a chance that someone might like it if you make them do it is not a compelling argument to disregard those with a different preference than yourself.

What if the devs allow you to choose allocated loot but 30% less loot in total drops. I could be ok with that. Those who can't live without their allocated loot can have it but if you really want to get good items then you're going to have to actually play the game how it's supposed to be played.

Remember, though - it's already "one drop per for or five monsters" (at the moment), and from what we've seen of the gameplay videos they don't exactly die instantaneously. Allocated loot or no, the amount of time spent looting is going to be fairly small compared to the amount of time spent actually killing enemies.

Also, it's possible to voluntarily turn a free-for-all loot system into a permanently-allocated or need-before-greed system at the player level, but impossible to do the reverse.

And, for that matter, consider the fact that need-before-greed systems even work in other games. What stops players from selecting "need" every time?