Anyone know a build that doesn't spam ONE skill 99% of the time?

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deteego wrote:

The issue is not that builds are just single skill spams, they aren't, in fact most of my builds aren't single skill spammers

The problem is that single skill spamming skill builds are the most broken ones, its a balance issue, and it means looking at skills like FP/EK/LA and toning them down

Please don't take this route of balancing. Calming all skills down, adding cooldowns. The pace of the game is fast, that's why high speed attacks are more popular than slow ones and why people using slow hunt IAS/ICS.

The game is fast, cool down skills don't work effectively here unless there's a way to bypass them. This is why flicker/cold snap both went from very popular skills to completely unused, but when the charge bypass was added people started picking them up again.

If you want to juggle skills, sweet, go for it, but added a bunch of cool down based skills slows down game play in a very fast pace game. It's counter productive at best.

I'm not sure exactly what the OP is looking for but with my Shadow/Lightening Strike/CI build to solo I have to use a minimum of 2 aura's, curses, totems, spectres, whirling blades and both Lightening Strike and Dual Strike in order to get the job done. FOr attacks I combine Dual Strike with MultiStrike/Melee Damage/Faster Attacks to get 7800dps and I use Lightening Strike with Faster Attacks/Reduced Mana/Melee Damage to get around 3500dps from it. The LS combo is good for slow moving hordes or tightly grouped mobs while DS I use for the tougher minibosses and bosses. Both attacks are balanced so that mana use is counter balanced by mana leech.

Spectres I use mostly as a diversionay tactic and spell totems I use to do any number of things, Rejuv, Freeze Pulse, AOE like Fire Storm etc. Even using these on a CI build I need to be very tactical in my attack strategy to survive some areas. Whirling Blades is used as mentioned but mostly as an escape mechanism for when things get dicey and I need to cool down ES.

So for me there is plenty of complexity skill wise :P

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Moosifer wrote:

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deteego wrote:

The issue is not that builds are just single skill spams, they aren't, in fact most of my builds aren't single skill spammers

The problem is that single skill spamming skill builds are the most broken ones, its a balance issue, and it means looking at skills like FP/EK/LA and toning them down

Please don't take this route of balancing. Calming all skills down, adding cooldowns. The pace of the game is fast, that's why high speed attacks are more popular than slow ones and why people using slow hunt IAS/ICS.

The game is fast, cool down skills don't work effectively here unless there's a way to bypass them. This is why flicker/cold snap both went from very popular skills to completely unused, but when the charge bypass was added people started picking them up again.

If you want to juggle skills, sweet, go for it, but added a bunch of cool down based skills slows down game play in a very fast pace game. It's counter productive at best.

Yeah I have to agree on Flicker ... but the problem to me is that it does not deliver enough damage to kill most mobs beyond the basic ones. Otherwise on CI builds using Bloodrage the cool down would not exist and it could be an awesome skill. I am toying with it again to see if can be tweaked and balanced with Mana Leech to deal enough damage to make it viable but I have not found the right combo yet :P

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Moosifer wrote:

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deteego wrote:

The issue is not that builds are just single skill spams, they aren't, in fact most of my builds aren't single skill spammers

The problem is that single skill spamming skill builds are the most broken ones, its a balance issue, and it means looking at skills like FP/EK/LA and toning them down

Please don't take this route of balancing. Calming all skills down, adding cooldowns. The pace of the game is fast, that's why high speed attacks are more popular than slow ones and why people using slow hunt IAS/ICS.

The game is fast, cool down skills don't work effectively here unless there's a way to bypass them. This is why flicker/cold snap both went from very popular skills to completely unused, but when the charge bypass was added people started picking them up again.

If you want to juggle skills, sweet, go for it, but added a bunch of cool down based skills slows down game play in a very fast pace game. It's counter productive at best.

I miss my flicker duelist from CB, good times, good times indeed.

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Moosifer wrote:

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deteego wrote:

The issue is not that builds are just single skill spams, they aren't, in fact most of my builds aren't single skill spammers

The problem is that single skill spamming skill builds are the most broken ones, its a balance issue, and it means looking at skills like FP/EK/LA and toning them down

Please don't take this route of balancing. Calming all skills down, adding cooldowns. The pace of the game is fast, that's why high speed attacks are more popular than slow ones and why people using slow hunt IAS/ICS.

The game is fast, cool down skills don't work effectively here unless there's a way to bypass them. This is why flicker/cold snap both went from very popular skills to completely unused, but when the charge bypass was added people started picking them up again.

If you want to juggle skills, sweet, go for it, but added a bunch of cool down based skills slows down game play in a very fast pace game. It's counter productive at best.

This is fallicious argument

The whole point of adding cooldowns on some skills is that you would use your zero cooldown skill most of the time, and your other skill some of time (which may have something like a 1-2 second cooldown?)

You have 8 active slots in PoE, you are not forced to just use a single skill. When one skill is one cooldown, you then *gasp*, use your other skill, I know its a hard concept to understand, but evidently a lot of people here havn't played aRPG's apart from D2/TL.

Putting cooldowns, when done properly has no effect on pacing. There have been so many games released since D2 that have disproved this fallacious argument

I am not against removing zero cooldown skills at all, but evidently there are zero cooldown skills which are broken currently (LA/EK/FP mainly). One route is to straight out nerf the numbers of the skill, which would probably prevent people from using it entirely, or the other option is to add a unique drawback to the skill, like they did with flicker, which is currently still being used, its just not broken

Note that there is nothing stopping GGG from also implementing a cooldown reduction gem. The reason why the CD was removed from flicker was obvious,it was f**ken broken, just as LA/EK/FP are broken now. Its still possible to use flicker now, I have seen plenty of people use it in conjunction with other skills, its just that if you want it to have zero cooldown, you have to invest more into it (understandably because of how powerful it is), which means you have to build around it with charges, and there is nothing wrong with this

There are alot of skills beyond LA/EK/FP that can one shot mobs. The list Slayer rambles off are usually half builds he's seen me run. If you think the solution is nerfing those skills and adding cooldowns you will slow down gameplay as people will have to cycle skills. This isn't an MMO where attacks are slow. Most act 3 mobs are fast moving and attacking. Having a few nuke skills that have cooldowns like traps or skills that have build ups like discharge, aren't bad. But if you are suggesting calming everything down to make cooldown skills the norm then you don't want an ARPG, you want an MMO.

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Moosifer wrote:

There are alot of skills beyond LA/EK/FP that can one shot mobs. The list Slayer rambles off are usually half builds he's seen me run. If you think the solution is nerfing those skills and adding cooldowns you will slow down gameplay as people will have to cycle skills. This isn't an MMO where attacks are slow. Most act 3 mobs are fast moving and attacking. Having a few nuke skills that have cooldowns like traps or skills that have build ups like discharge, aren't bad. But if you are suggesting calming everything down to make cooldown skills the norm then you don't want an ARPG, you want an MMO.

I'm always slightly disappointed when people say "there are only 4 builds, LA/EK/FP/PS". The truth is there are 4 builds that are incredibly easy to build into and work relaibly well. There are plenty of builds that do tons of dps and work perfectly fine.

Things like ele cleave are super popular and work very well, just they aren't a ranged skill. Then there are the less common builds like spork totem, dual GMP ice spear perma freeze, the spectre builds, Explosive Arrow QR and other such things. Then you can even go into the obscure like the ridiculous damage output of a fire trap based build. My fire trap build is so much mroe fun than it should be, killing piety with max resists at lvl 63 without a hassle or a tp, spend msot of my time running/herding enemies so i can throw one fire trap and everythingo n the screen is on frie and then dead. Its rather sad because its not a common build, but it is a powerful build

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Moosifer wrote:

There are alot of skills beyond LA/EK/FP that can one shot mobs. The list Slayer rambles off are usually half builds he's seen me run. If you think the solution is nerfing those skills and adding cooldowns you will slow down gameplay as people will have to cycle skills. This isn't an MMO where attacks are slow. Most act 3 mobs are fast moving and attacking. Having a few nuke skills that have cooldowns like traps or skills that have build ups like discharge, aren't bad. But if you are suggesting calming everything down to make cooldown skills the norm then you don't want an ARPG, you want an MMO.

You are over simplifying this way too much, obviously there are a lot of skills that can oneshot mobs, hell I am doing it currently with my new discharge character, in an ARPG however this point is irrelevant

What matters is the investment needed to make a skill oneshot. Case in point, again with my discharge example, I have to devote around 60-70% of my passive skill tree + 3-4 uniques for it to do that (maintaining/gaining charges, buff duration, etc etc).

The difference with EK/FP/LA is that you need absolute minimum investment to make those skills oneshot. The scaling on EK is so ridiculous that it can practically oneshit stuff with only around 4-5 nodes investment, same deal with LA (LA needs sparkling blows + catalyse + some other small stuff). FP just needs GMP/LMP + FP in your linked gem setup. This allows the exiles using such builds to devote 60-70% of their tree to pure defense, and run things like Khaoms with little to no disadvantage

I never said that all of the skills in PoA need a cooldown, but clearly some skills do for balance reasons (either that, or they need to be nerfed/adjusted in some other way)

If you think FP will one shot anything with just LMP, you haven't used FP. FP requires a large node investment for it to one shot. And in reality, a 6L. Because you WILL need both mana and life leech if you're a caster. There's no way to support it otherwise. Hell, with my caster in CB, even EB couldn't supply my mana consumption.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

If you think FP will one shot anything with just LMP, you haven't used FP. FP requires a large node investment for it to one shot. And in reality, a 6L. Because you WILL need both mana and life leech if you're a caster. There's no way to support it otherwise. Hell, with my caster in CB, even EB couldn't supply my mana consumption.

You don't need to one shot with FP, thats not the point of the skill

FP has ridiculously low cast time and projectile speed (along with zero cooldown) that is also penetrating and has AoE

Irregardless, you are completely missing my point. The skills are broken because they offer way too much power relative to the investment required, both in terms of gear and the passive tree section