Awakening (Ultimate Skills)

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OdiusLeo wrote:

Here's my 2 cents on a few fine points of your suggestion:

You would get spirit tree points parallel to passive tree points(your suggestion) but you would be able to choose the starting location on the spirit tree independently from your class choice. Starting location on the spirit tree could be called your Diety of choice, for example. These could include Light, War, Elements, Godless - possibilities are endless. Some classes could be locked out of some choices though, like Templar not being able to go godless :). 2 parallel skill trees practically doubles the possible diversity of builds.

The skills themselves could be called powers - powers your character inherently possesses through his/hers choice of worship, that cannot be swapped out by changing gems.

That could work too. Nice idea.

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OdiusLeo wrote:

2. The powers could be very diverse to best complement your existing skill-gems. You would be inclined to choose a utility power to a DPS one if your DPS output is strong already.

Yes, that's part of the purpose of my suggestion.

Examples:
- Minion master that focuses on Karma that grants Spirit whenever one of your minions deals damage, and uses an Ultimate that summons a single, very powerful Minion - like a ranged Lich or a melee Grim Reaper - both would be different options in the Spirit Tree.
- Melee with good damage and life leech, but low survivability to focused damage - might have Karma passives granting Spirit when he hits something in melee, and an Ultimate causing him to become unkillable for a few seconds (vulnerable to all effects and takes damage normally but can't go below 1 HP while the Ultimate is active).
- Melee focused on crits with Karma passive that grants Spirit on crit, and a passive Ultimate that causes his Crits to spend a large amount of Spirit to Stun the target (stacking duration with normal Stuns).
This means the Stun from the Ultimate would be something he can manage - he knows when it'll happen, and can strategize around it.

Additional Notes:
1 - The Ultimate system on its own would create variety.
Example: You have a Karma Keystone that doubles Spirit generation after a crit, and you have plenty of Karma Passives that give Spirit on Cast.
Assuming you're a Frost caster, this means you might use Ice Spear to try and land a crit, and then spam Freezing Pulse during the Keystone's bonus, building Spirit faster.
2 - Since you can "equip" 2 Ultimates by default - according to my suggestion - but your Spirit generation is limited, you must make decisions.
3 - There could be a Keystone that reduces Max Spirit and Spirit generation by X% but allows you to have a 3rd Ultimate - sacrificing efficiency for versatility.

The main problem with ideas like this is in my opinion: How do you fit it in the lore of Wraeclast?

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Delirii wrote:

The main problem with ideas like this is in my opinion: How do you fit it in the lore of Wraeclast?

There is plenty of despair in Wraeclast.
With despair comes desire for power and desperate actions.

Ultimate is just a placeholder name - call it Desperation, Exile...
...better yet, call it Overgrind (tm) - Grind Gear Games would truly have their name stamped on it.

Bump.

Please no, do not want.

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thirstybob wrote:

Please no, do not want.

I don't want this either. It doesn't fit this kind of game at all.

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Nurvus wrote:

It will be really nice if Path of Exile gets some kind of Ultimates/Limit Breaks/Overdrives such as the ones you see in games like League of Legends, Bloodline Champions, FFVII and FFX.

TL;DR
Ultimates are the most powerful Skills, obtained through the Spirit Tree, and require Spirit - a new Resource.
Spirit is built according to actions - such as casting a lightning spell or taking damage - determined by Karma, wich are passives from the Spirit Tree.
Amulets and Rings would be able to have a Gem Slot, and any Support Gems you put there apply to your Ultimates.

How would it work:
1 - Ultimates are powerful (but not overpowered) Skills that require Spirit, a Resource that builds according to your Karma.
- Ultimates are NOT Gems
- You can only have 2 Ultimates.
- Learning a new Ultimate when you already have the maximum amount of Ultimates prompts you to unlearn/replace one of your old Ultimates.
- Spirit starts decaying after a few seconds of inactivity
- Different Ultimates require different amounts of Spirit.
Examples of Ultimates:
Some would drain your Spirit slowly while active (examples: Shapeshifting)
Some would cost a small amount of Spirit (example: your next Skill is empowered)
Some would cost a high amount of Spirit (example: You cannot die for a few seconds)
Some would be passive (example: all crits use up X Spirit to gain additional properties)

2 - Karma are passives from the Spirit Tree that grant you Spirit when you perform certain actions.
Examples of Karma:
Karma Passive - Karma - Max Karma increased by 10
Karma Passive - Pyromaniac - You gain 3 Karma for casting a Fire Spell.
Karma Notable - Honorable Duelist - You gain 5 Karma each time you only hit 1 enemy with a Skill.
Karma Notable - Pure Heart - Reduces the amount of Spirit used by your Ultimate by 1%.
Karma Keystone - Equilibrium - You gain 3 Spirit every 3 seconds while below 50% Spirit.
Karma Keystone - Sinister Calling - Double your Karma generation for 5 seconds when you crit, but your base Karma generation is reduced by 33%.

3 - There would be a Spirit Tree.
- It would consist of Karma (passives) and Ultimates (actives)
- Class starting location would be the same as in (overlap with) the Passive Tree.
- There would be alot less Nodes.
- Each Class would start with access to 1 Ultimate Skill and 1 Karma Passive.
- Every Class would be able to reach any Spirit node.
- You would be able to get less than 20% of the available Spirit Nodes.
- You would gain 1 Spirit Point every 5 Levels or so, such that by Level 10 you have 1 Ultimate and 1 Karma (otherwise you can't build Spirit).

4 - Amulets and Rings would be able to have 1 Gem Slot each.
Support Gems placed in those Amulets and Rings would affect your Ultimate.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NONONOONONONONONONOONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

NO.

Im glad that ggg is clever enough not to do that =)

Nice try.
Now constructive.

Well, you have some upword climb to make here since the current design is to have your skills be on gems so you can swap them and have your passives be on the tree so that they are 'locked'.

So the question comes this: why not just put them on a gem?

I mean honestly the spirit system sounds just like mana. Not saying that there's no purpose for a 'spirit' bar that's separate, but why lock it down to part of the passive tree? Bah, I kind of like the idea you slipped in where rings/amulets have slots. Why not instead of a whole new tree just give them, say, Gold slots. You get up to 3 (one on each accessory) and can choose between 1 Ultimate and 2 supports or 2 ultimates and 1 support. Fear the idea of people swapping ultimates? Have spirit drain to 0 on ANY gold gem switch and it DOESN'T recover in town. Now you can switch if you want but you won't be able to use it for a while, making hotswitching useless.

An alternative option: You cannot gain Spirit normally. You need a Karma gem: a gem that gains spirit due to certain actions. You can have more than one Karma gem, but you only have 3 gold slots at max. Thus you can effectively have these combinations:

A karma gem and 2 Ultimates
A karma gem, 1 Ultimate, and a support gem
2 karma gems, and 1 Ultimate

Since SPirit goes to 0 on swapping, if you try to go without a karma gem, you end up with 0 spirit and no way to gain any more spirit.

Could also 0 out Spirit when you leave the game. Makes a sort of penalty to Alt F4ing.


Beyond that, it's effectively a one use Big Skill. Honestly, I think that can work well. Focus the skills towards 'desperation' or 'nitro' mentalities. Something you do when you want or need an extreme event. For example, an Ultimate that autoteleports you to your starting spot (that is, either the portal you entered in or the spot you came in if you came via TP) when you hit below 1 hp (you're saved with 1hp).

Though honestly, I would make the gem teleport you to a random location and have a support that 'locks' it to the start spot. Basic idea is that Ultimates are useful but unstable and difficult or risky. Supports make the Ultimates stable and reliable. Ultimate Summon, for example, would summon a random minion from the game from a L1 drowned one to Merc Piety. A Support, however would force the Ultimate to pull a monster that matches your level.

A melee player can have a melee Karma gem (kill something while in melee range of it), a Escapist Ultimate, and a To start Support. Now you have a melee player that has a chance to escape dsync.

A ranged player could have the Rapid Assault Ultimate that basically turns your ranged weapon into a machine gun that fires randomly and lets you move while firing. A Controlled Aim Support would force the Ultimate to focus on the nearest target.

(note if you can see a situation where someone MAY want to not have the support and take the risk, that's the idea, 2 Ultimates that are gambles or a stable single Ultimate)


Sidenote: no 'time' Karma gains. Beig able to gain spirit by just sitting just turns the thing into some odd 'forced downtime' matter. The system should encourage fighting, not encourage sitting still to wait for a 'charge'.



Honestly, I came in to slam this idea. However, I think it can work.

I agree with alot of what you said.

Above all, I don't want Ultimates to be introduced poorly.
Either go GGG quality, or don't go at all.

There are several possibilities to introduce the concept of Ultimates, anywhere between my ideas and yours.

Let me answer a few things:
- Spirit is different from Mana, and you kind of answered your own question, by saying Spirit shouldn't build based on time. I agree, and that's precicely the point of my suggestion.
Spirit is solely built according to specific actions and events, while Mana is solely built on time.
You use mana/health to use skills that in turn will somehow build Spirit, wich then can be used for all manner of powerful effects.
- I love your combined ideas of making both Ultimates and Karma as Gems, and able to have 2 Ulti & 1 Karma or 1 Ulti and 2 Karma, and I agree it would totally work.

That being said, I prefer Ultimates to feel more personal and be part of the character, rather than based on Gems.
- Ultimates might have Str, Int and Dex requirements, whether or not they're Gems.
- If they're Gems, they would level up and have a Quality bonus, otherwise they'd simply scale according to a static formula.
- Ultimates would have tags such as Projectile, Physical, Spell, Attack, Melee, AoE, Ranged, etc, and be affected by Passives that affect those tags.