Worst league ever !

I think that the upcoming changes can make this league OK+. Every league can't be a winner for everyone, at least if the goal is to make leagues different from one another.

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cursorTarget wrote:

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esostaks wrote:

I seriously don't understand what it proves?

...but it doesn't mean the rest streamers are happy with it...

It proves the success of the current league. If people don't like it, why do they still play it? As I told. It's not the best but still good. PoE in its history had worse leagues than this one.

if you (or someone else) don't like it - don't play it. Pretty simple and clear. Only numbers reflect the real state of the game. You can always check poedb for the fresh statistical data.

This league has terrible retention. As to why streamers play it, I already explained that to PoE exclusive streamers streaming PoE is their job and bread. Why wouldn't they play it? They always play - no matter how bad a league is. Because it's their job.

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Ulsarek wrote:

He might have been relevant a decade ago but that's it. Wasn't he also playing Ruthless this league? Imagine signing up for hardmode and then complaining that you're not getting stuff and that it ain't fun.

Isn't it kinda telling? When even a 'masochist' who likes exposing himself to pain, starts complaining that this is too much even for him?

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Pestilence_PoE wrote:

Are they just supposed to stop streaming and give up their income stream? Everyone knows that if you hate your job you don’t quit, just bitch and moan and make everyone else miserable also. Someone like Quin probably gets more viewers when he’s crying about something anyway.

They can find another game to stream, get education and find better job instead of begging the donations 24/7 sitting on the chairs. Or just accept the reality and enjoy what they got.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

There is a world of a difference between "shitting on the game" and criticising the game in a constructive manner. Do I really have to explain that to you?

It's not our case. PoE is not clang / LLV, gcc, postgresql or some sofisticated projects like jvm, clr, cfd (like symula). It is videogame where people overreacting very often and don't understand what can and what can't be changed. There is literally no tools for, as you said "criticising the game in a constructive manner". I'm talking about the platform with people competent enough. Only feedback. But it's not the same. If you want good example of what I could call "a constructive manner" check PostgreSQL dev hub, it's publicly available. Or OpenWall security lists.

It doesn't mean GGG should ignore the noise generated by the community. They just have limited amount of resources to fix all things. At the same time it doesn't mean the league is bad.

Another problem I can see - community is ignoring good things introduced in this patch and concentrated only (or mostly) on bad things. it's just unfair to the game devs and very biased.

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cursorTarget wrote:

It's not our case. PoE is not clang / LLV, gcc, postgresql or some sofisticated projects like jvm, clr, cfd (like symula). It is videogame where people overreacting very often and don't understand what can and what can't be changed. There is literally no tools for, as you said "criticising the game in a constructive manner". I'm talking about the platform with people competent enough. Only feedback. But it's not the same. If you want good example of what I could call "a constructive manner" check PostgreSQL dev hub, it's publicly available. Or OpenWall security lists.

It doesn't mean GGG should ignore the noise generated by the community. They just have limited amount of resources to fix all things. At the same time it doesn't mean the league is bad.

Another problem I can see - community is ignoring good things introduced in this patch and concentrated only (or mostly) on bad things. it's just unfair to the game devs and very biased.

Are you trying to suggest that the PoE player base cannot identify problems with league mechanics and point them out? Finding the problem is often 90% of finding a solution, at least for simple shit like "why does the filter reset every time I delete a corpse from the morgue"

It's up to game designers to fix those issues ultimately, but the community is the greatest asset they have in identifying the problems they should be working on.

I really don't agree with your take at all, cursor. It seems defeatist, and you rule out the possibility that someone would want something to be better that they already like. All things can be improved. Criticism != hate

And the last bit: you can praise one thing and criticise another. If you followed any of the content creators like Zizaran you'd know they do that. He was praising some things (such as the new atlas) while criticising other things (the league mechanic). The world isn't black and white dude

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Are you trying to suggest that the PoE player base cannot identify problems with league mechanics and point them out? Finding the problem is often 90% of finding a solution, at least for simple shit like "why does the filter reset every time I delete a corpse from the morgue"

Because GGG has limited human resources and time to fix / change / adjust things and they throw more resources depending on the ticket priority in their internal developemnt tracker. From the developer perspective the whole workflow looks completely different than average Joe can imagine.

For example

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ArtCrusade wrote:

why does the filter reset every time I delete a corpse from the morgue"

Okay, that will be addressed at some point. But at the same time a lot of users experiencing crashes (unhandled exceptions) caused by several different reasons which must be fixed. What do you think should be more prioritized?

For example, it's even a game! You can find a LOT of similar examples on GitHub, GitLab or any other SVNs.


PoE community in general asks more, more and more. It can't formulate problems as developer for the developer. This is the reason why we see useless posts like "My game crashed and I bought new 4090". And pointing on issue(s) is not enough to be effective. It has nothing to the world's color. For some reason you think the game is simple as LEGO and can be fixed in a second. But it's not. It's pretty complex with tons of legacy code.

Prioritizing what issues to tackle is the dev's job and none of our concern. I work in tech, I know how this shit works. Still, the community will find problems devs wouldn't even be aware of otherwise. Again, you are assuming a really odd position, aside from you ignoring the cognitive disconnect when you suggest that criticism = hating and therefore people should just quit playing altogether.

Remember, THIS is what you said:

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cursorTarget wrote:

But shitting on the game and keep playing it simultaneously doesn't look as mature position.

Now you're arguing about something completely different. You're quite literally moving the goalpost trying to wash over the fact that you said something so indefensible

The layout of the mechanic is awful.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Prioritizing what issues to tackle is the dev's job and none of our concern

Yep. And they think fixing crashes is more important than fixing loot filter or anything else. That's good point.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

you suggest that criticism = hating and therefore people should just quit playing altogether.

Yeah. Because that criticizm is brought to the devs in the inappropriate manner. It is the primary reason why Reddit moderators removed a lot of user posts recently. Also, users by spamming with the similar or trolling posts on reddit or forums won't make the fixing process faster. They have to wait or leave. There is no reason to be toxic. It's just a videogame. Just be a litle bit more patient.

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cursorTarget wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Prioritizing what issues to tackle is the dev's job and none of our concern

Yep. And they think fixing crashes is more important than fixing loot filter or anything else. That's good point.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

you suggest that criticism = hating and therefore people should just quit playing altogether.

Yeah. Because that criticizm is brought to the devs in the inappropriate manner. It is the primary reason why Reddit moderators removed a lot of user posts recently. Also, users by spamming with the similar or trolling posts on reddit or forums won't make the fixing process faster. They have to wait or leave. There is no reason to be toxic. It's just a videogame. Just be a litle bit more patient.

I feel like we are talking about two entirely different things here. I am refering to criticism like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g8C0zFvYww