dont nerf penance brand too much....
" i dunno, with those levels of investment almost anything can do 100s of millions in damage. once it starts getting to the sort of players doing stuff like that everything they do is absurd. people making actual reasonable league builds in hcssf like ziz etc were putting out guides for pen brand and it was more like 10-20 million damage, potentially pushing up to 30 with really good gear for what they were doing from what i saw. ive made a few different versions of it and at like for like investment it seemed to be doing about half as much damage again as a skill like forbidden rite totems, that was op and then got nerfed to be kind of balanced imo. people abandoned it, went from seen as the meta op to a place where i just never hear people using it now but its still fine? i think its still fine, its just a mid pack skill. thats why i think if they come out and say were cutting 1/3 off it ill think yep, thats probably reasonable? from what i was getting damage wise and what more reasonable people like ziz were posting guides and pobs showing that makes sense to me. people getting those huge numbers, its ivory tower energy blades from what ive seen? with some int stack sometimes thrown in? ivory tower energy blades molten strike is also doing billions of damage, people who make those kind of builds are always drawn to the best skills in the bunch but it makes it seem so out of whack because the scaling method they are using is just, well imo fundamentally broken. so it makes a skill like ms or pen brand seem like oh that skill does a billion damage and ground slam does 2 million. but really any skill they could use with their setup would be in the 100s of millions. i think ivory tower/energy blades, that just needs looked at. ivory tower should be a tier 0 unique for a start, i dunno if it needs nerfed or energy blades needs seen to? i dunno, something there is just broken. I feel like 95% of broken builds i see have ivory tower, energy blades or attribute stacking going on, and the really broken instagib everything pen brand builds ive seen have all been ivory tower + energy blades + int stacking, the holy trinity of idiocy. same with bow builds, u got mfers, theyre not that powerful they just can deal with gloves and boots etc and have effective aoe dps. but look at the actual broken 100 mil+ bow builds, seems like its always black sun, crystal omni, attribute stacking, trifecta attribute synth rings. broken wanders, int stackers, the str stackers are they doing the chaos sin ring thing atm? isnt that super strong? im a bit more vague on that. thats what im tired of personally, pen brand has been around 5 mins and probably needs a good 1/3 hacked off. but how long has attribute stacking been at the centre of most broken builds? from the mana bonding stuff to energy blades melee to battle maging it onto spells or whatever theyre doing ivory tower just seems endlessly broken for so long now. that whole area probably needs to be doing 90% less damage compared to other means of scaling damage cause they will just pick the next best skill and that will also do billions of dps with those setups. |
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lot of melee STR stackers on SC trade POEninja are just modest damage. Skill dependent ofc. we're talking mostly just over million to a few million with 2000+ STR and 6k life pools... not even that tanky. Broadly speaking most of the "busted" attribute stackers are wands and all damage can poison type builds.
Also its not directly germane but the numbers for Boneshatter of complex trauma are pure tooltip warrior fantasy due to the way the skill functions (stacks reset even when you build for breakpoints to balance the stacks near max its still almost always under or overflowing the max stacks so for 90% of your DPS uptime you're not at Pob/Ninja tooltip). Penance brand in HC doing 20mil is honestly more damning it might as well be hundreds of mil in normal use cases AKA SC trade. Once again this is ignoring that Brands are completely devoid of design flaws outside of being self casting or something. They are totems that follow the enemy, but have no health pool, they can leech, they hit over and over, they have tons of scaling opportunity including duration they are a DOT that hits and leeches follows and auto-targets after they kill... They're the dumbest thing GGG ever put into the game with no downside except that they used to have weak base damage. Which they no longer do. "only 10% of players care about melee" - Aesop's Fox if he was a GGG dev
"when you die in this game, typically you're getting one shot, you're dieing in one frame; almost always" -Ben_ |
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You have to basically delete all of the top 1% of build archetypes when analyzing this kind of thing.
Using energy blade ivory tower or strength stacking setups to compare penance brand to melee isn't a good comparison. You can have a completely half baked penance brand setup like my scion in hctrade right now and delete every piece of normal content in the game. And that characters gear is terrible. Pound for pound against some random molten strike, lightning strike, earthshatter character it is miles ahead. |
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" Agreed even if we ignore all the mechanical non mathematical advantages. "only 10% of players care about melee" - Aesop's Fox if he was a GGG dev
"when you die in this game, typically you're getting one shot, you're dieing in one frame; almost always" -Ben_ |
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" how much would you nerf it by if it was your call? |
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" I wouldn't necessarily use the skill gem to be the only way to nerf it, i would make it impossible to get +1 +1 on weapons and amulets to start with. Then also reduce the flat scaling of spell gems across the board by some percent And i would reduce the timer on EO to make it more in line with the investment of precise technique. maybe 2s buff or something so you actually need to invest into some crit to use it. I would also reduce the flat damage prefix modifier values for spells. Then give a small nerf to the overpowered spells including penance of d. The downsides of resolute technique and precise technique are enormous for the benefits vs EO. |
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" It needs to lose way more than a third, it honestly isn't far off needing the explodo totem tier of nerf (96%). 70-80% I'd go for personally, probably 70. It isn't just the numbers that are a problem with pbrand it is mechanically superior to most skills too and in GGG's grand scheme of usability vs dps that means it should do slightly less than regular penance brand. Its only weakness is clear compared to actual clear skills but that is a weakness shared with pretty much every skill already. Last edited by Draegnarrr on Mar 18, 2024, 8:50:36 AM
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Has to be nuked from orbit. Going to be 70% minimum nerf I'd say, or some mechanical change that makes it awful except under specific conditions.
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soo it pretty much got destroyed right? at least its no longer league start viable. maybe with heavy investment its still fine
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i think it calcs at about 70% yeah, honestly thats kind of ridiculous cause other bossing type meta skills of the past that have been nerfed and settled into the pack like explosive trap, forbid totems etc are gonna do significantly more damage than p brand now with the same sort of investment, and both those skills are wayyyyyy better for clearing maps than p brand...
where does that leave this skill? itll still be functional but its been around for 5 minutes and now its worse than stuff thats been around for ages, if we now go back to explosive trap etc is that keeping the game fresh? the skill was so overpowered that it will still work with this nerf, you can still play it but i think pretty much anything this skill can do now a number of other things will do better, things that have been played to death for ages and i dont rly want to revisit. you probably can league start it and itll be ok but its not a great mapping skill at the best of times so i dont think its gonna be feel like a powerful all content ability with no investment. but its not gonna be unusable trash i dont think. |
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