Comprehensive feedback

As player that has been here longer then most I agree with all of your suggestion.
Well I cannot share my experience about maps because I start new characters before reaching maps but by reading complaints of other people, what they mention is what I consider the worst problem of PoE (well worst is the D problem which was not mentioned in this topic so I will not talk about it as well) and that is Too Much RNG.

RNG is in Item drops+mods, gem drops, sockets, maps drops outside maps and then map mods+map drops inside maps. And crafting with alchemy, regal, chaos, exalted and so on.

In Diablo 2, RNG was in Item drops+mods. And Gambling which is similar to Crafting (without socket crafting) in PoE.

So why put so much more RNG into PoE if the game is boasting to be a spiritual successor of Diablo 2? To make people buy P2W items in cash shop? No such items exist, excessive RNG is normally in games that want to force you to spend real cash to circumvent it. Why change what made D2 good and fun??!

As much as Map RNGs are fucking up fun of end game players, the gem based and socket based RNG is fucking up fun of us that like to create new characters instead of playing maps.


BTW, a special shoutout to your suggestion about melee AoE skills being turned to support gems. This is something I wanted a long time ago but never posted about it as I considered it pointless to mention as I didn't think there was any chance something like that would be done.

Agree with everything that OP said.

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Moosifer wrote:

I knew I should have left the "before I go" part out.

so true. it unneccessarily depresses alot of people reading that a experienced player wants to quit. i could imagine the other players you mentioned quit silently because they don't want to harm the game in any way.
on the other hand thanks for your feedback.

i do agree on most of your points and liked your suggestions.
on the other hand you never did any assumptions why certain things are arranged the way they are or what's the intention behind certain mechanics.
for example i can imagine there is no easy high level grinding area because that would make level progression and economy inflation even faster. meanwhile in default you need to be lvl 74 to be listed at all among the first 15k players. and open beta just even started.

some of your impressions (where you said it was better before) are based on closed beta experience. pls just erase this memory as imo a open economy has different conditions than a closed circle which gets reset on a regular basis. this doesn't apply balancing and char building of course.

your thoughts on end game i cannot really comment as i would rather start a new char when playing my high level char is not fun anymore. but i see you only have one ladder listed char as well. it would have been helpful to list what open beta chars your critique is based on. (no offense meant, i know you played alot in alpha though).

and end game always is work in progress, act3 isn't even finished yet. things are about to change but they aren't changing fast.
for me it's a nearly impossible task from the dev side of view to to give people who play 10 hours a week the same level of game experience as people who play 10h daily. this must come at the price to slowing down progression in higher levels. and it's still too fast for my taste. before playing maps the average player should need around 80-100 hours, not 30-40 as it is at the moment. mercyless was supposed to be really difficult once and maps should have been the equivalent of Maelstrom of Chaos. they're not.

my 2 cents

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geradon wrote:

so true. it unneccessarily depresses alot of people reading that a experienced player wants to quit. i could imagine the other players you mentioned quit silently because they don't want to harm the game in any way.
on the other hand thanks for your feedback.

Read the quote and first two words and just changed it. After mouze's post it's probably a lie anyways.

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i do agree on most of your points and liked your suggestions.
on the other hand you never did any assumptions why certain things are arranged the way they are or what's the intention behind certain mechanics.
for example i can imagine there is no easy high level grinding area because that would make level progression and economy inflation even faster. meanwhile in default you need to be lvl 74 to be listed at all among the first 15k players. and open beta just even started.

Not sure what you mean by the first part. There's more things in the game I don't understand why they are there then things I do understand. For example, a company that seems to take their time and makes small changes over a long period of time, throwing in chaos res less than a day before OB blew my mind.

I can't imagine these things had anything to do with economy or level progression to be honest. I'm pretty sure everyone assumed the parent leagues would be a mess, especially default. Hence why they didn't take long getting races up and going. They actually started popping up right around the time prices really started to get insane too.

With leveling, while there's alot of higher level characters now, what, 94 is the highest? He has 2.7b experience when I think it takes over 4b for lvl 100. Not having a good transitional leveling area between normal content and maps just puts a feeling of stalling out. I don't need it to be lunaris 3 is lvl 65 and maps are 66, go. But I'd like areas that are higher level and easier to grind.

I don't mind grinding and I know that's what 65+ has in store for me. But when I'm getting exp progress I expect in the 70s, in the early/mid 60s it's just disappointing. Especially when I start doing maps at 66-69 and my exp bar starts flying again. It just feels like a bad transition.

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some of your impressions (where you said it was better before) are based on closed beta experience. pls just erase this memory as imo a open economy has different conditions than a closed circle which gets reset on a regular basis. this doesn't apply balancing and char building of course.

I enjoyed CB much more than the changes so far to OB. The majority of my frustrations have been building from changes between the two and a lack of action that should have happened then. While I'm talking from an OB experience, I can't ignore my CB experiences either. I don't think I have any "remember the good ole days" stuff nor do I think anything should be reverted.

While I don't enjoy the changes to ES and how it functions, I didn't just suggest to remove GR and ZO, I suggest they work differently than life so ES and life are two unique things, rather than just making one work exactly like the other.

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your thoughts on end game i cannot really comment as i would rather start a new char when playing my high level char is not fun anymore. but i see you only have one ladder listed char as well. it would have been helpful to list what open beta chars your critique is based on. (no offense meant, i know you played alot in alpha though).

That character probably gives no real reflection of my OB experience as it's a split arrow build that used lioneyes and was built off my experiences with alpha and knowing what I was in store for.

I have 3 other builds, a 63 explosive arrow shadow, could only get exp arrow 3l because of the outrageous mana cost (even with EB) and all the good grinding areas have fire res so leveling felt like too much of a chore.

A lvl 70 discharger, who was going well but discharge's damage is lower than I expected and wasn't able to function how I needed it to in maps (clean up nuke) so I was left using ice spear on everything which was meant for CC and building charges. The damage was lacking but I felt like pushing through to make it work as in 10 lvls I would have had 3k more damage on discharge before crits but cyclone came out.

My 4th build is a MFer, he was frozen at lvl 37 farming ledge then I took him to 55 to farm merci ledge, then when I realized the real money is in high priced uniques I made him a summoner and took him to (atm) lvl 71.

Then there was probably, 6 (...? Upward of 9, can't remember because of secret alpha shit that I hope you know what I'm talking about) builds ranging between 50-66 in alpha which all experienced the same problems I listed. Most of these points are things I mentioned quickly on alpha anyways.

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and end game always is work in progress, act3 isn't even finished yet. things are about to change but they aren't changing fast.
for me it's a nearly impossible task from the dev side of view to to give people who play 10 hours a week the same level of game experience as people who play 10h daily. this must come at the price to slowing down progression in higher levels. and it's still too fast for my taste. before playing maps the average player should need around 80-100 hours, not 30-40 as it is at the moment. mercyless was supposed to be really difficult once and maps should have been the equivalent of Maelstrom of Chaos. they're not.

I've bit my tongue on alot of things and I'm talking from a POV that understand act 3 ex/act 4 could be a year away, meaning I know not to ask for more content. What I do want being a guy who nolifes the game, is options and a streamline experience. I want to feel smooth progression from one area to the next, in the sense of leveling and I want to be able to use the same skills in different ways, have a build that's the same in name but different in function. These aren't hard things to achieve, you just need to make the tree so it's more general opening and specific on the outskits. I'll take care of making the builds, just leave that door open for me. Restricting classes to certain builds means I have the same builds just different gems (and if melee it just different skill same supports).

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I think it takes over 4b for lvl 100.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 10b than it is to 4b

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some of your impressions (where you said it was better before) are based on closed beta experience. pls just erase this memory as imo a open economy has different conditions than a closed circle which gets reset on a regular basis. this doesn't apply balancing and char building of course.

No. Erasing memories from when the economy was more stable makes it look like this is the only economy there ever was, which is untrue. Keeping around the knowledge of the CB economy is good evidence that the economy cannot handle large amounts of players as it stands.

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Xendran wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 10b than it is to 4b

It's been dataminded. Exact number is 4,250,334,444. So the guy who is in 1st almost 2 months into OB is 64% to lvl 100. Oh, also lvl 91 is about half the experience you need for lvl 100. It's a pretty steep climb.

Solid feedback & I also agree for the most part but regulars will know that all of these suggestions have been forwarded for months on the forums & yet very little is ever said or done about them, GGG certainly play their cards close to their chest don't they.

For me the most pertinent point is endgame. There's over 20k players that are above lvl70 & yet endgame doesn't seem to be a priority for GGG whatsoever. I am really hoping for that patch to come soon that says "We added a lvl65 random dungeon generator aka MOC where players can grind & also acquire items to unlock higher level content".

Well, sorry to see a regular taking a break. If I weren't an mf whore I would probably be doing the same as I haven't touched maps in over 2weeks.

If I can offer any advice in general it would be to have a backup game or w/e on hand when you are playing betas. I have made the mistake a cpl of times now of overplaying a beta, getting frustrated with it & leaving before the final game was released. Even though the games' often improved by release I couldn't bring myself to play them anymore. It's a shame when that happens and I am trying to not let it happen with POE. GGG will get there in the end, just try to not burn out before they get there.

Cya round

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I’ve been playing probably 4-12+ hours a day since I started in late July. I love the game but recent changes and lack of changes have just driven me away. I still love what it could be so I wanted to give feedback on my frustrations rather than just walking away without a word, like much of my friends list.

I gave up on the dev changes around 2 weeks after OB. The only thing that can rescue the game are private leagues with full modification rights.

One guy doing the balance only appealing certain kind of players.
This won't end well.

How I would change it:







Considering Grinding. It is even worse.
The experience output became terrible. I don't rush my if there isn't any need, so I didn't rush any time. The result I was 4 levels underleveled all the time.
I never grinded that long in Closed Beta, even in 1 week races I leveled till level 58 rolled some semiuseable EQ and went mapping. The only Race where I actually had to grind a bit was the 1 week Turbo where I had to grind 1h to find a map so I started with 2 maps.

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- Link Catacombs and Church from act 2. Have a quest where you have to unlock it from act 2 and it gives the respec points. Once opened from the back you can access it from marketplace or even vice versa. They are the same tileset but catacombs is bigger, not 2 floors and doesn’t have a boss.

You could add a cross act quest without linking. Something like an act3 item opens a new high level area in Act2.

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I’ve been on this for months, mana is out of control. Most people just accept things the way they are, get clarity with mana leech, BM with a ton of life/life regen or EB. These are the extreme options, but late game, with a 6l or mana hungry skill (explosive arrow, EK, high APS FP) it’s the only options. There’s no balance here.

There were like 10 threads in closed beta already that heavily critisized the mana system.

While I agree with the problem there are several possible solution. Limit Auras similar to charges and add nodes which allow one more aura, and a better mana boost on mana nodes, while heavily lowering the mana cost for skills.

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(I’ve never made a ranger). These builds all end up in the same spots with small variation.

I got a friend who played evasion shadows/ranger in closed beta before the big shadow buff.
He took quiet a few block nodes and lifeleech, but he hasn't logged in for months and I doubt those builds would survive now due chaos damage.

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We are what, 2-3 patches away from being able to turn it completely into life now? A few months ago ES was completely different from life and the advantage to taking it was having a very large EHP pool being able to absorb all hits.

One reason I liked turbo was simply because going CI wasn't worthwile.
I saw 2 player(I think torin was the shadow) getting killed on Turbo within 1 second and it wasn't like they had that bad equipment if they could kill Turbo Vaal in Merciless.

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Right now these two things are ass backwards. Armor users don’t have to worry about little hits because armor eat little hits. Evasion users can’t eat these little hits but get SOME forgiveness on hard hits. Both aren’t awesome against hard hitters but at least armor users can eat little hits.

I suggested an Armor Class system similar to PnP games several times for Evasion. If such a system is implemented IR can go.

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Resolute Tech - Removing crit is a drawback to templar but not really to mara. In an area with hardly any accuracy/dex and no crit, removing crit for always hit is a no brainer.

I never understood the intention of that node even as a Templar with 24 dex I had a 50% hit chance on mobs with normal attack(I a was caster with a mace)

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Blood magic - Someone stacking life and life regen to survive with little access to mana, why wouldn’t you take this unless you wanted % auras?

This sounds harsh but Blood Magic is simply. Have some idiot in party with auras, while you spam the skill.
BM should be an option not a must, now we end up at mana again.

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Unwavering Stance/Iron Reflexes combo - This is just dumb. US has a great drawback if all you have is easy access to evasion. When combined with IR, it means free armor from grace and cannot be stunned. There’s a reason maras always head down there.

Not only Maras. My ranger builds always takes those 2 nodes too.

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It didn’t turn out to be that way. Instead we get stuck at the beginning of the map tier grinding forever knowing that there’s better experience higher up but it’s not much better experience, just higher. Then once you finally break through and get higher you find out you need to spend a tremendous amount of your wealth in hopes that you will progress again or sustain where you’ve reached. Even if you dump all your wealth in there’s still a good chance you’re dropping back down. You leave realizing the exp isn’t that great, you are poor so can’t afford to keep doing that and have very little to show for it all. You are left frustrated and feel like you are grinding just in hopes of getting back to where you were.

There is even a bigger problem.
Getting into maps.
Once you are in its hard to drop out.
I complained after 5 days after OB due terrible map drop rate.
Nerfing vendor receipes is also not a part of the solution.
Make them interact with the itemlevel(currency has an itemlevel). Create a currency that raises the itemlevel. Or instead of an item level give currency a quality, so instead of creating stacks you create stacks of quality and you can use low quality chaos orbs to improve themselves to higher quality similar to the 3 PG system in D2.
This way players can grind chaos/alchemy orbs to roll maps and items get unaffected and high level/quality currency is worth a lot.

I find it hilarious that some devs even think totally broken support gem mechanics are fine.
"Hey you got a 20k Beartrap with an aura and 3 support gems, while I got a 3k dps 6linked Ice Nova, with reduced cast speed"

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We added a lvl65 random dungeon generator aka MOC where players can grind & also acquire items to unlock higher level content".

There is such an unique map forget that you have been trolled.

While I do like shadows a lot I don't do races anymore until D is fixed and game is better balanced. I certainly will not do turbo with D problem.

I agree with everything Moose has said in this thread, unfortunately don't have time to go into details why.