worthless standtard roa garbage guide

Yo, your guide helped me get my first character to maps in hardcore, thanks. Hopefully rain of arrows won't be affected as much as people are making it out to be, will be looking out for your thoughts on RoA after the patch!

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gh0un wrote:

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0rochi wrote:

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gh0un wrote:

The only advantage RoA had over LA was that it did not need any accuracy in order to utilize critchance and critdamage.
With that advantage gone, sure you can go ahead and get resolute technique for two points, but the important thing here is the critchance and critdmg lost when compared to a LA build.
There is no reason NOT to play a LA build under these circumstances.
Playing a hands down worse version of another build pretty much means its dead.
You guys dont even understand that the 2 point investment isnt whats breaking the skill apparently.
When it comes to LG, basing a whole build on a unique is fine, but its not accessible to everyone, and on top of that LA would still be superior given the same items.

You can take the exact same skillbuild pretty much, and play it on LA (with your 2 point resolute adjustment). You now got a stronger and more flexible build.
You gear for pretty much the same stats once critchance and critdmg is gone, so there is no reason NOT to switch to the superior skill.

it's kinda wierd that u keep harping on crit chance n dmg when ur build only takes a grand total of 3 crit chance nodes.

u can remove ur 3 crit nodes and will hardly notice any dps diff lol.

15.7% overall critchance with a 325% critdmg multiplier translates to about 40-50% more overall dps against bosses and rares or very high resistance mobs (since everything else is instagib).
You can recuperate some of that by going for other stats on items postpatch, but they will only work as additive scaling factors (additional WED will only be added on top of your existing WED), while critchance and critmult function as another MORE damage multiplier.

Basically you wont be able to recuperate anything close to 50% more damage.
The best bet to recuperate the lost damage here is to go for a lot of additional attackspeed if you dont have any yet, because then it will function as a true more damage multiplier, but it will also function as a true "less survivability" multiplier because it increases your health drain.
Considering the patch already lowers health regeneration due to health node nerfs, this will make a lot of attackspeed hurt even more so.

how did u get 15.7/325? with 90% more crit chance with your 3 nodes, u'll only get 9.5%. u're not using crit gems, and only piece of gear u have crit on is amy. and even at 15.7% u wont crit enough for it to be a consistent source of dmg.

u already took ele dmg nodes and are using blackgleam, replace your amy with a high ele dmg one, and replace gloves with thunderfists and you're looking at higher dps than your current crit would give u.

or again, if u think so highly of crit, just use LG. and considering the low cost of LG now, it just takes a little trading/farming to get it so it's easily obtainable. and how is LA superior to roa given same items? 2 totally different play styles and the difference of point blank, and now LA is superior because ? existing LG users wont be affected by patch changes roa wise, so u're saying LA is just better than roa and nobody should use roa to begin with?

attk speed and BM shouldnt be affected by lower hp/hp regen... just use loh or life leech. and considering your major source of dmg should be from flat ele dmg on jewellery and gloves, attk speed is just icing on the cake.

Critchance on your bow increases your innate critchance for bow skills.
With a higher base critchance, your multipliers have greater effect.
Which is also why LG is not really a solution for people that want to utilize crit.
LG has no base critchance increase, thus your critchance will never reach any significant amount.
With a lvl 90 build, i could reach up to 25-26% critchance with a critbow, with upto 400% critmult.
You say its not significant, but even with 15.7% critchance and about 300 critmult, it amounts to about 40-50% overall dmg increase against rares (if not more, but im too lazy to also include the ignite damage).

Considering that accuracy is so bad however, and the bug is being fixed, you cannot really utilize crit unless you use a LG. Crit with usual accuracy is the worst thing anyways.
Your crits roll twice for accuracy, once to determine whether you hit, and then again to confirm the crit. Which is the reason why old RoA was the perfect candidate to utilize crit on.

How about stop feeding the troll and chillax a little ;>

Do you think it´s gonna be worth going above the templar tree with the inner force changes?
You might just skip the whole part, the only downside is you lose a lot of int.
I would guess with all the changes and spare points point blank would be almost necessary and one could easily reach Unwavering Stance.



Somewhere along these lines, it just seems like there´s a lot of mediocre life nodes in there but don´t really know a better path.
Elementalist is optional only if you need the int ofc.

Seems pretty flexible in any case.

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gh0un wrote:

Critchance on your bow increases your innate critchance for bow skills.
With a higher base critchance, your multipliers have greater effect.
Which is also why LG is not really a solution for people that want to utilize crit.
LG has no base critchance increase, thus your critchance will never reach any significant amount.
With a lvl 90 build, i could reach up to 25-26% critchance with a critbow, with upto 400% critmult.
You say its not significant, but even with 15.7% critchance and about 300 critmult, it amounts to about 40-50% overall dmg increase against rares (if not more, but im too lazy to also include the ignite damage).

Considering that accuracy is so bad however, and the bug is being fixed, you cannot really utilize crit unless you use a LG. Crit with usual accuracy is the worst thing anyways.
Your crits roll twice for accuracy, once to determine whether you hit, and then again to confirm the crit. Which is the reason why old RoA was the perfect candidate to utilize crit on.

u can easily hit 30% + crit chance with lg, u just need to use maligaros n dual crit quiver n neck, n get more crit nodes. What u were doing was abusing a bug to get crit without investing into crit nodes, which was not intended, hence the fix. Crit is still viable with roa, u just need more gear n change in passive nodes... which is y ggg is giving free respec.

and stacking ele dmg will raise ur dps a ton, n it works with every hit, not just 15% of the time. Critting 15% of the time is really useless when most mobs die within 1-2 hits, n with bosses more constant dmg > 15% chance. Ure saying roa without crit kills ur build, while im telling u 15% hardly does anything to begin with.

anyway if u decide roa is useless just coz of the fix, then u simply dont realise there's more than one way to make roa work, n without relying on a bug.

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Ure saying roa without crit kills ur build

I didnt play in months, and i probably wouldnt play another bowrauder even if i were to participate in the new leagues, i would probably start up a new character.
So im not really worried about my character because i had no intention to play him in the first place since he is too high level to comfortably level without spending too much currency.

Any estimation regarding the consequence of the fix, i make purely based on base stats of the skill versus other bow skills.
Even with the bug in place, LA had a slight damage advantage (given equally good items), but RoA was close enough that all of the other benefits that RoA grants were well worth using the skill.
These benefits include immunity to lightning thorns (one big hit vs many small hits on LA), a defensive advantage against white mobs and champions due to being able to perma stun them once you deal enough damage, a good resilience against elemental reflect if you chose to use point blank (you can stand a little further away to tune down your damage and thus reflect less damage), longer elemental ailment duration, bigger AoE (if you aim for it), better single target damage (especially noticieable against high lvl bosses).

After the patch i dont believe that you can come close to the potential damage output of LA.
While it might be more than enough to clear maps comfortably (i dont doubt this at all actually), it wont be competing for the top 10 best skills, imo anyways.

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gh0un wrote:

I didnt play in months, and i probably wouldnt play another bowrauder even if i were to participate in the new leagues, i would probably start up a new character.
So im not really worried about my character because i had no intention to play him in the first place since he is too high level to comfortably level without spending too much currency.

u're not willing to spend currency to see how far roa can go, but u simply choose to say "RoA is pretty much dead with the next patch." i think i pretty much hit it on the nail when i said your only version of playing roa was to abuse the bug so u could gain an advantage without spending. i dont even know why i'm wasting time trying to reason with someone who has given up on his own charc / build =/

bottom line, RoA isnt dead. your charc that uses RoA is.

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gh0un wrote:

Any estimation regarding the consequence of the fix, i make purely based on base stats of the skill versus other bow skills.
Even with the bug in place, LA had a slight damage advantage (given equally good items), but RoA was close enough that all of the other benefits that RoA grants were well worth using the skill.
These benefits include immunity to lightning thorns (one big hit vs many small hits on LA), a defensive advantage against white mobs and champions due to being able to perma stun them once you deal enough damage, a good resilience against elemental reflect if you chose to use point blank (you can stand a little further away to tune down your damage and thus reflect less damage), longer elemental ailment duration, bigger AoE (if you aim for it), better single target damage (especially noticieable against high lvl bosses).

After the patch i dont believe that you can come close to the potential damage output of LA.
While it might be more than enough to clear maps comfortably (i dont doubt this at all actually), it wont be competing for the top 10 best skills, imo anyways.

apart from using a subpar bow with crit chance to capitalise on the bug, did u even try other bows and gems and builds with both roa n la? i have tried 6l triele and 6L LG bow with LA and RoA, spent hundreds of regret orbs testing out various nodes, and settled for 6L chinsol and roa. why would i do that if roa cant even come close to the potential damage output of LA?

i wont go into a debate on the top 10 skills, since spells are way stronger than bow skills atm and patch will buff melee, but i can tell u with certainty that if u only consider bow skills, roa can outshine la in areas, especially if u build for it and are not on a shoestring budget.

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0rochi wrote:

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gh0un wrote:

I didnt play in months, and i probably wouldnt play another bowrauder even if i were to participate in the new leagues, i would probably start up a new character.
So im not really worried about my character because i had no intention to play him in the first place since he is too high level to comfortably level without spending too much currency.

u're not willing to spend currency to see how far roa can go

What are you talking about? I did lvl 77 maps SOLO, thats the maximum lvl available.
I pretty much already saw how far RoA can go in the current content that is available.
There isnt anything left to do except for grinding currencies and then invest them in maps.
The game got boring so i stopped playing that char.
Getting back up there is not a matter of build, its just a matter of time investment which i am not willing to put into PoE right now.
A build that is not capable of soloing highlvl maps isnt even worth talking about when it comes to the viability of the build, so i dont quite understand why you would assume that.
If your build cannot clear high lvl maps, thats your problem, not mine really.

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gh0un wrote:

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0rochi wrote:

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gh0un wrote:

I didnt play in months, and i probably wouldnt play another bowrauder even if i were to participate in the new leagues, i would probably start up a new character.
So im not really worried about my character because i had no intention to play him in the first place since he is too high level to comfortably level without spending too much currency.

u're not willing to spend currency to see how far roa can go

What are you talking about? I did lvl 77 maps SOLO, thats the maximum lvl available.
I pretty much already saw how far RoA can go in the current content that is available.
There isnt anything left to do except for grinding currencies and then invest them in maps.
The game got boring so i stopped playing that char.
Getting back up there is not a matter of build, its just a matter of time investment which i am not willing to put into PoE right now.
A build that is not capable of soloing highlvl maps isnt even worth talking about when it comes to the viability of the build, so i dont quite understand why you would assume that.
If your build cannot clear high lvl maps, thats your problem, not mine really.

1.) all u did was to cash in on the bug instead of trying out how much better it CAN be with other gear and passives, and end up saying roa is dead because u're still not willing to improvise. that's what i'm talking about.

2.) u soloed 77 maps with that kind of gear. so what's wrong with RoA again? why would roa be dead after patch? it wont be, simple.

3.) u're totally contradicting yourself when u say :

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A build that is not capable of soloing highlvl maps isnt even worth talking about when it comes to the viability of the build, so i dont quite understand why you would assume that

when YOU are one saying roA is dead. so again, why would u assume roa will be dead? for the final time, just becaue YOUR way of playing roa gets fixed, it doesnt mean other ppl cant find ways to utilise it effectively.

4.) y do u even bother to assume my build cannot clear high level maps when i'm the one defending roa, and u trashing it? it's precisely because i can, and with ease, that i say confidently that roa will not be dead after the patch. far from it. because my build doesnt rely on crit nor the accuracy bug currently. unlike u i wont be afected by the patch, albeit needing to spend 2 more points to get RT. irritating, but no biggie considering phy dmg will be buffed.


feel free to use LA and party in whatever map with me n i'll use RoA, and we can see who clears faster. after patch of coz.

Hi!

I just wanted to make a few comments regarding your section on a dual totem RoA build. I've built my 81 HC marauder around this concept, and contrary to popular opinion, it is extremely versatile and powerful (and safe) due to several factors.

1. Totems utilize the distance from themselves to the enemy when factoring in point blank and chin sol. This means that you get a multiplier of 1.5 and 2 from having your totem in the enemies face. This is the key to doing major damage.

2. The above point, combined with several other "more" multiplicatives can great rather immense damage. The tooltip is deceiving. This can be done by using the following supports in combination with chin sol and point blank, and a playstyle of refreshing your totems in the enemies' faces:

on a 5L - RoA - Conc Effect - WED - Faster Attacks - Ranged Totem

More multipliers multiply with each other and the additive damage, meaning that this combination with an enemy near the totem is (rough estimate due to the differing nature of elemental and physical damage):

(Damage)(0.6 due to Range Attack Totem)(2 due to Chin Sol)(1.5 due to point blank)(1.5 assuming ~70% of dmg is elemental)(1.7 from Conc Effect)(2 from 2 totems)(1.3 from Projectile Weakness) = 11.93 times the damage of your main attack with no danger to yourself. This makes even small additive increases in damage multiply immensely.

3. Your point about cast speed is an issue, but I find that it is easily solvable by using the haste aura and 1 or 2 jewelry pieces with cast speed.

4. combine these totems with some bear traps and your DPS becomes even more immense.

5. RoA totems can shoot past frost walls for added safety

6. Your point about the range issue can be solved by grabbing the underutilized +15% range node near Iron Grip, which also is by a life node, making your totems much more tanky. with the extra range, my totems often shoot offscreen, giving me a good indication of where the enemy is.

7. RoA totems do not have the same sight issues as ice spear or spark totems. They often will shoot over walls and around corners with ease, making it very easy to position them correctly.


I've been running this dual RoA totem build for a while and it is by far the most powerful and safe build I've been able to design. Grabbing all of the increased AoE nodes and using a carcass jack makes the aoe rather large, so packs of enemies just melt next to my totems.

Just figured I'd comment as I don't see many people considering the use of dual ranged totems.