[3.5] Occultist Vortex/Cold Snap ES/CI - Deathless and Safe Uber Elder and T16's
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Deepalertz wrote:
What does the night of the meek do actually I tried put it in and my es go down and also dps .is it really worth it?
Also what is shaper damage? When I look at pob I just sees the total dps saying 450k.it is not enough?
Might of the Meek: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Might_of_the_Meek
Lets use an example (also, have a look at my tree, I'm using MOTM in the socket north of Lord of the Dead. MOTM gives you a 50% bonus to any non-keystone passives in the jewel's radius. So looking at your tree, if you were to replace your Ghastly Eye jewel with a MOTM (currently 35-40c), you'd gain 15% AOE instead of 10% AOE on the 3 nodes directly below it. It allows you to free up a few skill points by unallocating keystones (e.g. Arcane Will), whilst increasing the return you get from the non-keystone passives you are already using. I found it was hugely beneficial to my build.
Shaper damage is just your dps for shaper. Once you've imported your build to POB, make sure you have ticked the boxes labelled "Player has Elemental Equilibrium" and "Ignore Skill Hit Damage" on the Configuration tab. That should hopefully show your effective dps. I'm sitting at just over 250k, and i've cleared uber elder with that, so if you're at 450k, I think you should be fine.
Can’t quote anymore lol but yeah I guess you’re right.I think for now my current es will do.Also what is the standard dps for this build I hope I’m not too far off just for the es.Quick update:this is my gear
i think i manage to get my es back to 11.8k without sacrificing aspect of the spider Hooray!
honestly, no idea what can be counted as standard. A long time ago someone quoted that you'd want around 700k shaper dps at least. I have no idea what the basis for that is. then there was another player with crazy good gear doing 1.5m shaper dps. (1k es chest, bottled faith, aul's etc). so I think that's probably the range.
taking a look at your tree, I highly highly highly suggest socketing might of the meek. otherwise you should spend 4 more SPs getting all the notables in that area. compared to you, I only have 2 jewel sockets. I dont think you should be concerned with survivability at 11.8k, so you could focus on dps if you want.
edit 1: i'm sitting on 980k shaper dps atm. 10.6k ES. this is with 21/20 vortex, and 20/20 all other gems. I haven't bothered to vaal/buy 21/20 gems yet
What does the night of the meek do actually I tried put it in and my es go down and also dps .is it really worth it?
Also what is shaper damage? When I look at pob I just sees the total dps saying 450k.it is not enough?
Hey there. Might of the meek is a unique jewel that multiplies the effect of non notable passives by 50% and makes notable passives useless.
We put this in a very specific jewel slot. The one next to the "Instability" notable passive that sits near the start of the witch tree. Your DPS and ES probably dropped because you have socketed it in a wrong jewel node. Look at my tree.
As for shaper DPS, this requires you to go to the configuration page in POB, select shaper as the enemy you are fighting. Bosses and shaper have different values of reduced curse effectiveness and defenses that make your DPS less. For example, I deal 1.6m DoT DPS to normal mobs, but only 1m DPS to shaper. That's what it means. Why is this important? Because you need enough DPS so that you can comfortably kill bosses without the fight going on for 30mins. The POB configuration helps you with that.
Hope this helps explain what I meant by the range of shaper DPS being somewhere 700k to 1.5m.
What does the night of the meek do actually I tried put it in and my es go down and also dps .is it really worth it?
Also what is shaper damage? When I look at pob I just sees the total dps saying 450k.it is not enough?
Might of the Meek: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Might_of_the_Meek
Lets use an example (also, have a look at my tree, I'm using MOTM in the socket north of Lord of the Dead. MOTM gives you a 50% bonus to any non-keystone passives in the jewel's radius. So looking at your tree, if you were to replace your Ghastly Eye jewel with a MOTM (currently 35-40c), you'd gain 15% AOE instead of 10% AOE on the 3 nodes directly below it. It allows you to free up a few skill points by unallocating keystones (e.g. Arcane Will), whilst increasing the return you get from the non-keystone passives you are already using. I found it was hugely beneficial to my build.
Shaper damage is just your dps for shaper. Once you've imported your build to POB, make sure you have ticked the boxes labelled "Player has Elemental Equilibrium" and "Ignore Skill Hit Damage" on the Configuration tab. That should hopefully show your effective dps. I'm sitting at just over 250k, and i've cleared uber elder with that, so if you're at 450k, I think you should be fine.
hey parhelius, i took a look at your tree. consider completing the loop on the right side of your tree via soul thief (2sp). then de-allocate your written in blood connection (free-ing up 3sp). then allocate your remaining sp into the blood of the savant ES wheel (6% vs 5%) or the unnatural calm wheel (also 6%). consider de-allocating the 7sp near Light of Divinity and Holy Dominion. I found that Amplify and Retribution were enough. you may consider using these 7 sp to get more ES in your path of savant wheel, or allocating it to DPS via minion damage node near the shaper, or completing the ash, frost and storm notable. the single SP for 16% spell damage at the witch start is also a value for money SP allocation. in fingers of frost wheel, the right path sp may not be very valuable in terms of sp cost vs dps gained. these are just suggestions you might want to play in POB to minmax your tree.
What does the night of the meek do actually I tried put it in and my es go down and also dps .is it really worth it?
Also what is shaper damage? When I look at pob I just sees the total dps saying 450k.it is not enough?
Might of the Meek: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Might_of_the_Meek
Lets use an example (also, have a look at my tree, I'm using MOTM in the socket north of Lord of the Dead. MOTM gives you a 50% bonus to any non-keystone passives in the jewel's radius. So looking at your tree, if you were to replace your Ghastly Eye jewel with a MOTM (currently 35-40c), you'd gain 15% AOE instead of 10% AOE on the 3 nodes directly below it. It allows you to free up a few skill points by unallocating keystones (e.g. Arcane Will), whilst increasing the return you get from the non-keystone passives you are already using. I found it was hugely beneficial to my build.
Shaper damage is just your dps for shaper. Once you've imported your build to POB, make sure you have ticked the boxes labelled "Player has Elemental Equilibrium" and "Ignore Skill Hit Damage" on the Configuration tab. That should hopefully show your effective dps. I'm sitting at just over 250k, and i've cleared uber elder with that, so if you're at 450k, I think you should be fine.
what you want to check in configuration are the following 3 boxes:
under effective DPS, check
1. enemy is chilled
2. enemy was hit by light (which means lightning) damage (this is to calculate EE)
3. ignore skill hit damage
parhelius, the player has elemental equilibrium is actually meant for map modifiers/player debuffs. ie, if player has elemental equilibrium, it doesnt refer to the player having allocated that on the skill tree, it means that if player was hit by lightning damage, player's fire and cold resistance -50%. so it's a debuff. your allocation of EE on the skill tree is already taken care of. :)
What does the night of the meek do actually I tried put it in and my es go down and also dps .is it really worth it?
Also what is shaper damage? When I look at pob I just sees the total dps saying 450k.it is not enough?
Might of the Meek: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Might_of_the_Meek
Lets use an example (also, have a look at my tree, I'm using MOTM in the socket north of Lord of the Dead. MOTM gives you a 50% bonus to any non-keystone passives in the jewel's radius. So looking at your tree, if you were to replace your Ghastly Eye jewel with a MOTM (currently 35-40c), you'd gain 15% AOE instead of 10% AOE on the 3 nodes directly below it. It allows you to free up a few skill points by unallocating keystones (e.g. Arcane Will), whilst increasing the return you get from the non-keystone passives you are already using. I found it was hugely beneficial to my build.
Shaper damage is just your dps for shaper. Once you've imported your build to POB, make sure you have ticked the boxes labelled "Player has Elemental Equilibrium" and "Ignore Skill Hit Damage" on the Configuration tab. That should hopefully show your effective dps. I'm sitting at just over 250k, and i've cleared uber elder with that, so if you're at 450k, I think you should be fine.
what you want to check in configuration are the following 3 boxes:
under effective DPS, check
1. enemy is chilled
2. enemy was hit by light (which means lightning) damage (this is to calculate EE)
3. ignore skill hit damage
parhelius, the player has elemental equilibrium is actually meant for map modifiers/player debuffs. ie, if player has elemental equilibrium, it doesnt refer to the player having allocated that on the skill tree, it means that if player was hit by lightning damage, player's fire and cold resistance -50%. so it's a debuff. your allocation of EE on the skill tree is already taken care of. :)
you should see your dps jump by maybe 50%.
Ah, it appears I was misinformed...I'll have a look at your tree suggestions, thanks. I haven't thought remotely about min/max, I only have a few ex invested into the build.
Thank you for sharing your tree, it has a lot of good ideas. I'm trying to understand the curse setup you're using though. You're dual-curse, but have enfeeble on damage taken, frostbite on hit, and a stibnite flask. So enemies will mostly be hit by frostbite, if they hit you then they get enfeeble, and when you need a damage boost you pop the flask?
If I'm right does that means you're using Solstice Vigil just for Shaper's Presence and not using Temporal Chains anywhere?
Also, here's a suggestion, drop Shaper, Potency of Will and one 6% ES node for six points. Then put them in the left side of the Might of the Meek radius: two intelligence nodes, the right side of the Arcane Guarding wheel, and the right side of the Frost Walker wheel (PoB: https://pastebin.com/BPgvvqLD).
According to my PoB you'd trade:
- 8% ES (from 10 intelligence and the 6% ES node)
- 45% skill duration (do we actually need this?)
- 40% mana regen (a quality of life upgrade)
- 1% ES regen
for:
+ 6% ES (from 30 intelligence)
+ 66% increased damage (55k for me)
+ 60% additional ES from your shield (170 ES for me)
Thank you for sharing your tree, it has a lot of good ideas. I'm trying to understand the curse setup you're using though. You're dual-curse, but have enfeeble on damage taken, frostbite on hit, and a stibnite flask. So enemies will mostly be hit by frostbite, if they hit you then they get enfeeble, and when you need a damage boost you pop the flask?
If I'm right does that means you're using Solstice Vigil just for Shaper's Presence and not using Temporal Chains anywhere?
Also, here's a suggestion, drop Shaper, Potency of Will and one 6% ES node for six points. Then put them in the left side of the Might of the Meek radius: two intelligence nodes, the right side of the Arcane Guarding wheel, and the right side of the Frost Walker wheel (PoB: https://pastebin.com/BPgvvqLD).
According to my PoB you'd trade:
- 8% ES (from 10 intelligence and the 6% ES node)
- 45% skill duration (do we actually need this?)
- 40% mana regen (a quality of life upgrade)
- 1% ES regen
for:
+ 6% ES (from 30 intelligence)
+ 66% increased damage (55k for me)
+ 60% additional ES from your shield (170 ES for me)
hey there, you're right, I am using solstice vigil just for the shaper's presence. however for certain boss fights (which I will not have flask on forever), I swap out my enhance and faster casting in my gloves to socket blasphemy+temp chains. you are correct on the dual curse - frostbite+despair (most of the time it's just despair for mapping). the idea for myself mainly is that enfeeble is applied for when I take a hit. I have also considered removing increased duration and using temp chains for my CWDT setup, to just curse everything to be tempchains+enfeeble. with an aul's I would run hatred in addition (swapping out solstice). for mapping, it's ridiculous how fast I can run thru maps with shaper's presence up. I can cast my vaal cold snap and the duration gets stretched SOOOOOOO long that (on certain occasions) vaal cold snap has ended and I can recast it again with no downtime. (i press QS flask, quartz flask, phase run, flame dash and everything just dies in the vaal cold snap aoe).
as for the suggested tree, I can't seem to find where I can de-allocate a 6% ES node. but for the sake of the discussion, you are correct that the 6 nodes you have suggested gives about 250 additional ES (for me) + about 75k dps (for me). however just to share, my decision to take potency of will is just a personal preference. for longer fights, it's actually just easier to have the vortex stay there longer. 5.25s vs 3.9s. it just "feels" better. for mana regen, I do need shaper to sustain mana regen. I could take the other mana regen node in the might of the meek radius. at the end of the day, I don't see a need to increase my ES by 250, my dps by 75k. the key is that it's a critical personal preference to maintain the potency of will. otherwise I would agree with you that your allocation would be more beneficial dps and ES wise.
Alrighty I have put the might of the meek into the the tree seems like I have got some more damage.
Is there anything I am missing now?btw is aspect of the spider count as a curse?
Last edited by Deepalertz#7339 on Apr 25, 2019, 11:19:10 AM
Also, here's a suggestion, drop Shaper, Potency of Will and one 6% ES node for six points. Then put them in the left side of the Might of the Meek radius: two intelligence nodes, the right side of the Arcane Guarding wheel, and the right side of the Frost Walker wheel (PoB: https://pastebin.com/BPgvvqLD).
According to my PoB you'd trade:
- 8% ES (from 10 intelligence and the 6% ES node)
- 45% skill duration (do we actually need this?)
- 40% mana regen (a quality of life upgrade)
- 1% ES regen
for:
+ 6% ES (from 30 intelligence)
+ 66% increased damage (55k for me)
+ 60% additional ES from your shield (170 ES for me)
as for the suggested tree, I can't seem to find where I can de-allocate a 6% ES node. but for the sake of the discussion, you are correct that the 6 nodes you have suggested gives about 250 additional ES (for me) + about 75k dps (for me). however just to share, my decision to take potency of will is just a personal preference. for longer fights, it's actually just easier to have the vortex stay there longer. 5.25s vs 3.9s. it just "feels" better. for mana regen, I do need shaper to sustain mana regen. I could take the other mana regen node in the might of the meek radius. at the end of the day, I don't see a need to increase my ES by 250, my dps by 75k. the key is that it's a critical personal preference to maintain the potency of will. otherwise I would agree with you that your allocation would be more beneficial dps and ES wise.
Fair enough. I'm more interested in maxing my single target damage and farming UE than maxing clear speed. Also I was looking at your lvl 92 tree before you hit Path of the Savant, so it wouldn't work anyways.
