Discipline

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

blackphantooom wrote:

"

DragoonsAN wrote:

With the new update. The mana reserve of this skill became 60%, in which after turning Discipline and Clarity aura on, my mana is only left with 26. The mana reserve is too high to make it a worthy skill, it's now just a skill that reserve mana for no reason.

how much now give ES ?

315 ES at level 20.

Reserve 60% mana (42% with lvl20 reduced mana) for 325 ES? Really? REALLY?
Better just delete this aura from the game! It's absolutely worthless now.

with high aura effect/es% you can easily get 2k ES, with potentially over 3k, wow so worthless

i'm having a derp moment here...

auras can be boosted by the new nodes but then granted ES is boosted by ES related passives...

there's a slight disconnect which causes me to hesitate on logic. would the es be boosted twice because the aura is strengthened before applied or as the typical all inc add up?

Discipline is a flat bonus, so increasing the aura effect should be multiplicative with increased ES passives.

"

slay_2 wrote:

303 on 19 lvl. After spending 6 points near shadow-tree area and having 19 lvl reduced mana gem I still can't use 3rd aura, even if it is purity. Also, sacryfying only 2 points in energy shield, to get 34% increased aura effects haven't tradeoff. I had to respec many points and somehow find the solution.

In summary I've lost the ability to use purity (so elemental weakness curse on maps is a pain from now), lost 300 ES (I have to have few points in reduced reservation to be able to cast totem with summon skeletons - but still have to take out minion resitance support) and get some increased DPS because of adding some DPS nodes near my tree. FOr me it's a not good deal.

I think, that the way of changing auras is too oafish - inreasing the mana cost by 50% doesn't mean that increasing the aura effect by also 50% is perfectly logical. I could use 4 auras, now I can use 2, both improved by 50 % (hatred and discipline). Even in this simple math I have now 2 auras valuable 1,5 'old aura' equals 3 auras. So I'm nerfed.

I have to agree --- aura change was, indeed, oafish.

Discipline has been dropped from my aura setup in favor of Clarity and Purity, now using Tempest Shield instead. The benefits from disc just don't jusity a 42% (this is with several nodes) cost.

The new aura changes seems to have nerfed discipline into the ground.

the ratio of gain to cost is no longer worth it. If I spec into reduction and build around it slightly I still can't make the numbers work.

60% *.73 = 43.8
43.8*.92= 40.296

Assuming Eldrich Battery
for me now casting it cost 40% of my mana

40% reserve gives ONLY 303 mana?

1540 starting mana becomes
945 reserved and 1416 available

it gives less mana than it reserves?


***EDIT: ALSO General opinion, it is unintuitive that the effect of discipline would be applied prior to the cost. Why would you get the extra mana before mana is reserved? it should reserve based off your pool pre-casting discipline.

first part:
60% -> 0.6 *0.71 [lv 20 reduced mana] *(1 -0.41) [reserve cost passives, all but the bottom] = 0.25134 -> 25.134% of mp bar only rounded up based on the actual result which is when that percent is applied onto the max mp. this is the final result reasonably gotten and at max situation.
i can only guess your .73 is your reduced mana support but i don't know what your .92 is... if you have lv 18 reduced mana and the aura passives, then you'd be reserving .6 *.73 *.59 = .25842 -> 25.842% max mp.

second part:
318 es on lv 20 (if the wiki is correct, which seems so because its refilling the chart)
318 *1.7 [aura inc] *1.24 [buff inc] = 670.344 es
OR because i have yet to know either way nowdays but it should be the previous but its a rule of thumb to count the "worse off" situation.
318 *1.94 = 616.92 es

third part:
yeah its a percent reserve, it'll be consistent even if your max mp changes due to EB or equipment changing. the math however shows that its nearly a 25 points of es per percent of max mp spent, which sounds reasonable to me. not sure what to think about when it comes to EB however... honestly i don't want to think that.

The new Aura nodes certainly do soften the blow- but I have to agree 60% is too much with how core discipline has always been to ES builds. Make it 40% like purity and I think it would be fine.


And it's not like dropping one aura 60->40% is going to bring back the days of every single character running 7 aura.


All the other auras(well except vitality of which which still blows) are worthwhiles at 60%. Discipline is kind of overpriced.

Discipline level 20 gives only 318 base ES, whereas Grace gives 2016 base Evasion. Seems a little bit unfair, seeing as the usual formula for items is that 1 point of ES is worth 3 points of Evasion. Then again, Int builds generally have access to better aura and buff effect passives than Dex builds, and stacking lots of ES is generally more useful than stacking lots of Evasion.

I'd keep the 60% reservation and buff the amount of ES, say to around 450. This aura isn't supposed to be a no-brainer for ES builds, it's more for people who want abnormally high amounts of ES for some reason and are prepared to sacrifice their other defences to get it. (Or in the case of Eldritch Battery builds: it's for people who want abnormally high amounts of mana regen, and are prepared to reserve nearly all of their mana on Clarity and Discipline alone in order to achieve this.)

"

Incompetent wrote:

Discipline level 20 gives only 318 base ES, whereas Grace gives 2016 base Evasion. Seems a little bit unfair, seeing as the usual formula for items is that 1 point of ES is worth 3 points of Evasion. Then again, Int builds generally have access to better aura and buff effect passives than Dex builds, and stacking lots of ES is generally more useful than stacking lots of Evasion.

I'd keep the 60% reservation and buff the amount of ES, say to around 450. This aura isn't supposed to be a no-brainer for ES builds, it's more for people who want abnormally high amounts of ES for some reason and are prepared to sacrifice their other defences to get it. (Or in the case of Eldritch Battery builds: it's for people who want abnormally high amounts of mana regen, and are prepared to reserve nearly all of their mana on Clarity and Discipline alone in order to achieve this.)

Despite of this difference, Discipline is more useful, than Grace. This shows, how evasion is flawed comparing to ES.