Discipline

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SmilingCat wrote:

I don't see the point stopping EB build getting free mana from discipline, it is far to be overpowered considering the nodes investment required to make it effective. So doing as you suggest would just completely destroy builds resolving around it for no other reason than "it shouldn't work because I think so".

Let's say you have a lvl 18 discipline. 205 mana cost for 192 ES. So, you need 7% ES (= Less than 1 ES node or 35 int) for equal the 1:1 ratio. Obviously, you have way more than 35 int when you are playing EB. So, yes, Discipline is free mana without any drawbacks.

No drawbacks? You will have no ES, I'd consider that a drawback. Plus there is not much else of value in that area (maybe Doomcast and the life circle with the Fitness node), so travelling there consumes a lot of points for those EB builds. But yeah, calling for nerfes to popular builds seems to be the new trend sport.

Side note: Discipline basically received a good buff with the new cluster behind CI, but that's only for CI users of course.

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Lord_of_Error wrote:

No drawbacks? You will have no ES, I'd consider that a drawback. Plus there is not much else of value in that area (maybe Doomcast and the life circle with the Fitness node), so travelling there consumes a lot of points for those EB builds. But yeah, calling for nerfes to popular builds seems to be the new trend sport.

Side note: Discipline basically received a good buff with the new cluster behind CI, but that's only for CI users of course.

There's no drawbacks when you play EB. Obviously EB itself has drawbacks but that's irrelevant.

Discipline works for EB, CI or low life high ES builds like righteous fire/shavronne's wrap. That's a decent amount of builds. It also works in general for any build if you find you have too much mana and need more survivability but cannot afford/already have other defensive auras, like Purity. It is better than Determination for example if you don't have any armor, or even very low armor. You don't get a huge amount of ES from disc, but you get a pretty good amount especially if you have decent int and maybe grab some ES nodes like Body and Soul or Nullification or the witch ES stuff, or have Inner force. 150mana for 300 or so ES is a pretty good deal, unless you're using Blood Magic(then ES is pretty worthless).

I think the aura is fine as it is, it's not that strong but it fits a pretty unique role and is very useful in specific builds, which are actually quite a lot of builds.

Having to spend way more points than the typical hp build is a pretty reasonable drawback.

My bow marauder build at lvl 90, with EB, can only afford to take up 225% hp. In comparison, when I get a 6L to use a BM gem with, I could spec out of EB and ES/mana/regen nodes and get myself 301% hp, 5% more all resist, 1.5% hp regen and 15% more attack speed. All this while being able to run essentially the same amount of auras and never having problems thanks to a life leech/lgoh gem. Or I could do what every other bow build does, and just get blood magic keystone + shitload more life and never worry about mana.

So losing all that to build for EB is considered "free"/without drawbacks?

This is a drawback of EB, not of using Discipline if you're EB. That's exactly what I said the first time, it seems you don't understand the nuance. You made the choice of going EB because you needed the mana and didn't want to go Blood Magic, that's a choice you made that has drawbacks and advantages sure, but once you made that choice to go EB, you can pick Discipline with 0 downsides, it just gives more mana. You wouldn't pick EB just because you can get more mana with Discipline, your choice to go EB isn't affected by Disc in anyway and the only downsides come from EB, not from Disc.

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PyrosEien wrote:

This is a drawback of EB, not of using Discipline if you're EB. That's exactly what I said the first time, it seems you don't understand the nuance. You made the choice of going EB because you needed the mana and didn't want to go Blood Magic, that's a choice you made that has drawbacks and advantages sure, but once you made that choice to go EB, you can pick Discipline with 0 downsides, it just gives more mana. You wouldn't pick EB just because you can get more mana with Discipline, your choice to go EB isn't affected by Disc in anyway and the only downsides come from EB, not from Disc.

Ah, it seems that I had indeed misread, my bad.

...Although I don't see why Disc being "free mana" for EB builds is bad? Blood Rage is "free frenzy charges" for CI users as well, and I sure don't see people complaining about that. And then there's Shavronne's Wrappings' "free PA/Auras/RF" which undoubtedly has a much bigger impact that mere mana/frenzy charge.

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Zealflare wrote:

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PyrosEien wrote:

This is a drawback of EB, not of using Discipline if you're EB. That's exactly what I said the first time, it seems you don't understand the nuance. You made the choice of going EB because you needed the mana and didn't want to go Blood Magic, that's a choice you made that has drawbacks and advantages sure, but once you made that choice to go EB, you can pick Discipline with 0 downsides, it just gives more mana. You wouldn't pick EB just because you can get more mana with Discipline, your choice to go EB isn't affected by Disc in anyway and the only downsides come from EB, not from Disc.

Ah, it seems that I had indeed misread, my bad.

...Although I don't see why Disc being "free mana" for EB builds is bad? Blood Rage is "free frenzy charges" for CI users as well, and I sure don't see people complaining about that. And then there's Shavronne's Wrappings' "free PA/Auras/RF" which undoubtedly has a much bigger impact that mere mana/frenzy charge.

Never said it's bad, it's just fine actually. Well some guy said it was bad and should be changed, but I disagree with that opinion, auras work better in certain builds and while in this cases the aura becomes an entirely beneficial effect since it has no downside anymore(the cost is replaced by a larger amount of mana), that's just skills synergies with specific gamechanging keystones, and like you pointed out the same thing happens with CI and Blood Rage.

WTB Math Teacher:

I'm running Eldritch Battery with something like this:



If I run both Purity and Haste together I get a mana pool of X

If I then turn on Discipline, my mana pool becomes much smaller than X

What gives? (Mind you these 3 are linked with Reduced Mana as well, but removing that doesn't solve my math problem either...)

Sucks, too high mana reserve/cost, weak effect!