[3.7] LL RF Scorching Ray Guardian | 19K ES | 52k Armour|1.5 mil dps| Uber Elder & HoGM DEATHLESS

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Venetostar wrote:

sry one more question

somehow i cant fit in last aura(nr.7)
i bought a lvl4 enlighten gem but still dosent work.


-using current PoB 3.6 update
-my acc is public

any suggestions?

Easiest and quickest fix would be buying lvl 1 Clarity, dropping all reserved mana nodes and re-leveling Clarity to around level 12 (50 something unreserved mana)

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mkdnpna wrote:

"

Venetostar wrote:

sry one more question

somehow i cant fit in last aura(nr.7)
i bought a lvl4 enlighten gem but still dosent work.


-using current PoB 3.6 update
-my acc is public

any suggestions?

Easiest and quickest fix would be buying lvl 1 Clarity, dropping all reserved mana nodes and re-leveling Clarity to around level 12 (50 something unreserved mana)

thx,
did something similar, problem solved.

"

Venetostar wrote:

sry one more question

somehow i cant fit in last aura(nr.7)
i bought a lvl4 enlighten gem but still dosent work.


-using current PoB 3.6 update
-my acc is public

any suggestions?

All your rare items are bad.
Your scepter have some flat fire dmg. This ruin everything with EE.
Buy a Doon Cubeyari.

Your rings are bad. Core stats you should look for are :
- 40+ str / 40+ Intel / 40+ ES / 40+ Mana.
- One of them should have 29+ Dex ; the second should have a flat cold or light dmg (but absolutly not fire dmg).

Your boots should provide some ES, as much as possible. Look for something like this :
- 190+ ES / 25+ move speed / some intel or some res or both.

Your Belt should be a Shaper one with T1 "%inc ES recovery rate" (shaper base exclusive affixe). Get some ES and str if possible. Try to ballance your res on it.


In your gem setup :
Empower isn't a wise choice unless it level is 4 at least. And it not realy worth unless you have lvl 21 SR gem. Controled Destruction or Swift afflication is certainly better in your situation.
It's probably better to play without Empower unless you have a +1 level gem corruption on Shavronne.

Arcane Surge in Storm Brand setup should not be leveled over lvl 7. After level 7, the mana you have to spend in order to proc Arcane Surge will surpass the Storm Brand mana cost. So it will basicaly never proc and you won't have the %more dmg buff from this gem.

Buy aura gems lvl 20. This should not be too expensive.
Purity Aura should be lvl 21 if possible (always looks for Impurity version too, they are frequently cheaper than normal version in lvl 21 version).

I've played an RF Chieftain in the past, and thought I would give this version a shot, but theres a couple things on the build that I don't fully understand.

First is the use of a ruby flask. I love how flasks can boost your stats, but I have issue with them being required to be "always on", as there is going to be times where they are not activated for one reason or another. In other builds that just means reduced damage. In this one, I can't figure out how it doesn't get yourself killed. In PoB, if you disable the ruby flasks, life regen can no longer overcome the degen. Any recommended way to compensate for this?

Second, I don't fully understand how an ES version of this works. Wouldn't the constant damage from RF prevent ES from recovering?

Thanks. :)

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

Second, I don't fully understand how an ES version of this works. Wouldn't the constant damage from RF prevent ES from recovering?

Thanks. :)

Strictly speaking it will prevent ES from recharging not from recovering
And
1. We have Zealot's Oath passive which converts Life regen to ES regen. So if you have like 10% Life regen on your tree it will be converted to 10% ES regen
2. RF self-damage is based on 90% of Life and only 70% of ES. The more ES/Life ratio you have the lesser % of ES needs to be recovered to sustain RF. If you switch to RF too early (like 2k life and 2k ES)your ES regen (converted by Zealot's Oath) might not be enough to outregen self-damage as regen is % of your total ES (like regen 10% of your current 2k ES ) but you'll have extra degen caused by having substantial amount of Life on top of that. In short things get better the more ES/Life ratio you have before switching. This might be the case of why u're having troubles without Ruby flask.

I remember having troubles in Incursion when I played Life-based RF Guardian, allocated some point to ES before switching to ES-based.
Then I found out that I burn too much because still having too much Life.
When I switched back I found that I burn too much because now having too much ES :)

Also all LL MGRF builds (which this build is) typically achieve greatness by combining many synergies:
1. Shaper's Touch makes Strength atrribute bonuses to work as Int bonuses (provide Mana and ES) so Str and Int becomes both equally good for the build. So having extra Strength in gear piece is as good as having Int (tho if you have less Int than Str it might be better to have +30 Int as opposed to +30 Str but anyways ...).
2. Prism Guardian allows to use Life to reserve Auras. That enables LL and allows us to have additional Auras. By carefully planning which auras we reserve on Life and which on ES its possible to have almost all mana and life reserved thus maximizing the number of useful Auras.
3. Memory Vault gives additional flat Armour the more reserved Mana we have. This allows us not to care much about Endurance charges (as Juggs have to rely on that mechanic to efficiently mitigate phys damage).
4. Chaos damage is a problem because normally it bypasses ES. But we have Shavs (or Lorica) so now it doesn't. Also Chayula amulet helps with Chaos resists alot.
5. Due to Radiant Faith ascendancy the more reserved Life we have the better as it converts to flat Armour.
6. Due to Radiant Faith ascendanct the more mana we reserve the better as it converts to flat ES.
7. Due to Unwavering Faith ascendancy the more Auras we have the more extra Life Regen % (and flat phys dmg mitigation) we got, so maximizing number of useful Auras is good.
8. Healthy Mind jewels across the tree provides extra Mana and converts Life to Mana. That allows us to improve ES/Life ratio and have extra Mana for extra Armour and flat ES.
9. We also have a bunch of extra % ES nodes on the tree. Since we have good amount of flat ES these nodes helps greatly in building ES pool.
10. We have Purities Auras and Prism Guardian (+37% all res) so we don't need to care much about elemental resistances on gear (only need around 25% Cold res at any of the remaining 4 rare gear slots) as opposed to Life based chars.

So in total: after passing transitioning point, buying build-defining uniques all LL MGRF buiids tend to snowball quite efficiently both in terms of damage and defences.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

First is the use of a ruby flask. I love how flasks can boost your stats, but I have issue with them being required to be "always on", as there is going to be times where they are not activated for one reason or another. In other builds that just means reduced damage. In this one, I can't figure out how it doesn't get yourself killed. In PoB, if you disable the ruby flasks, life regen can no longer overcome the degen. Any recommended way to compensate for this?

Second, I don't fully understand how an ES version of this works. Wouldn't the constant damage from RF prevent ES from recovering?

Thanks. :)

If you use Path of Building software, you will see, in the left part of the windows, all your stats. Some skills like RF or Blood Rage apply a degen on your character. So PoB will do the calculation for you between :
- The degen from those skills ;
- Your regen (natural regen + all buff from tree, stuff, aura, etc.).
The result of this calcuation is showed in the line "Net life regen".

The "Net life regen" can be buffed by situationnal and temporary buff like flasks, options like boots enchant or being on consecrated ground for example.

We had the discussion just before : The build MUST be balanced without taking situationnal or temporary buff in consideration.
So you should have a positive "Net life regen" without flasks, boots enchant, or consecrated ground buff.
So if you only sustain RF degen with Ruby flask, you do it wrong, and so you need to rework your build.


For your second question, your though is right. RF should prevent ES from recovering by constantly damaging our character.

But we don't thanks to Zealoth Oath. Zealoth Oath have two realy interesting interaction with ES regen :
- First it apply the life regen to ES, so our total ES regen will be greatly increased ;
- Secondly, it will apply the constant regen coming from life regen to our ES. So even if we take damage, Zealoth Oath will provide a constant source of ES regen that won't be stoped from taking damage. This constant regen is equal to our total life regen.

If you load on PoB the pastebins of some fully working character provided in this topic, you will see positive "Net life regen". But once you respect Zealoth Oath on characters, you will see the "Net life regen" becoming negative.
We sustain RF and always regen thanks to Zealoth Oath.

Zealoth Oath is a core keystone for LL RF build you cannot play without it.
Once you have it, then you can start to balance all stats that help to mitigate RF degen (max fire res, fire res, life regen, %ES recovery rate, etc.).

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LAGROSSESIMONE wrote:

If you use Path of Building software

This question literally arose because I was looking at PoB... for this build.

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LAGROSSESIMONE wrote:

We had the discussion just before : The build MUST be balanced without taking situationnal or temporary buff in consideration.

This build right here literally doesn't do that. It has a net regen, but if you toggle off the Ruby Flasks, it no longer has a net regen. Hence the question, how does this build deal with that? I'm not asking a generic question about how RF works, I'm asking about *this build*.

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mkdnpna wrote:

For your second question, your though is right. RF should prevent ES from recovering by constantly damaging our character.

But we don't thanks to Zealoth Oath.

Zealots Oath is only recovering 325 health, and theres no way thats going to recover, for example, a loss of 10k ES when ES's natural recovery is blocked.

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mkdnpna wrote:

Zealoth Oath have two realy interesting interaction with ES regen :
- First it apply the life regen to ES, so our total ES regen will be greatly increased ;

It applies 325 recovery per second, which isn't "greatly". "Pathetic" is a better descriptor.

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mkdnpna wrote:

- Secondly, it will apply the constant regen coming from life regen to our ES. So even if we take damage, Zealoth Oath will provide a constant source of ES regen that won't be stoped from taking damage. This constant regen is equal to our total life regen.

I've read this about a dozen times now and can't figure out what its trying to say. Zealots Oath is applying a life regen of 2125 to ES, and RF is applying damage of 1800 to ES. The net result is 325 recovery to ES. But since its under constant damage, ES's natural recovery of 3924 per second never kicks in. Ever. Either theres some extra detail I'm missing, or this build doesn't work.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

This build right here literally doesn't do that. It has a net regen, but if you toggle off the Ruby Flasks, it no longer has a net regen. Hence the question, how does this build deal with that? I'm not asking a generic question about how RF works, I'm asking about *this build*.

Ok, so I just loaded the pastebin provided by zzang in the 3.6 spoiler update, and my personnal character.
I uncheckmarked flasks and consecrated ground buff, and this is what I get on the 2 PoB :



As you can see : No flask option were checkmarked, still we have a "Net life regen" information, and it is positive.

So I see few possibilities :
- Your explaination aren't accurate enought, so you should probably post a screen of PoB and the pastebin link that leads to the situation you are talking about (because options you checkmark matters) ;
- You are looking for the wrong line, and should recheck your stats liste in PoB ;
- You missed some crucial option that fucks up the stats.
One of the most common mistake done by many player when looking in PoB is to do not checking if Vaal gems are correctly checkmarked/unchekmarked. PoB does not manage cleaverly Vaal gems and will only checkmark the vaal version, but not the normal version. For Vaal Discipline or Vaal Righteous Fire this leads to some totaly fucked-up stats when you check your character.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

Zealots Oath is only recovering 325 health, and theres no way thats going to recover, for example, a loss of 10k ES when ES's natural recovery is blocked.

Ok so better than long explaination, screen will do a way better job.
As explained before, I loaded zzang's pob from his 3.6 spoiler, and my personnal character from std : here are 2 screen with Zealoth Oath, and without Zealoth Oath. I will only change this between the 2 screens :



As you can see, with Zealoth Oath our "Net life regen" are both positive. But once we respect Zealoth Oath, our "Net life regen" became negative and we suffer an extremly strong degen. On each PoB ZO provide over 3k net life regen (this can vary considering how much ES and regen you have on your whole build).

As said previously, it's the only option I changed in both PoB. So you can easily see the effect of this keystone.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

It applies 325 recovery per second, which isn't "greatly". "Pathetic" is a better descriptor.

I'm curious to know were did you get this number. But considering the screens I provided, I will assume you did something wrong or refering to an unaccurate information.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

I've read this about a dozen times now and can't figure out what its trying to say. Zealots Oath is applying a life regen of 2125 to ES, and RF is applying damage of 1800 to ES. The net result is 325 recovery to ES. But since its under constant damage, ES's natural recovery of 3924 per second never kicks in. Ever. Either theres some extra detail I'm missing, or this build doesn't work.

I don't realy understand your point here. But let me do a quick resume of how regen is working ...

In Low Life RF build you have 3 importants informations :
- "Total Degen" : This number is how much life/ES you will lose per second because of RF. It's the same in Life or LL builds ;
- "Energy Shield regen" : this number is the total sum of %ES regen and the ZO buff ;
- "Net life regen" : It's the result of "Energy shield regen" - "Total degen".

So, the "Net life regen" represent how much regen you will have AFTER taking RF degen.
And while ZO provide a constant regen, thanks to life regen mecanics, RF damage does not prevent ES to regen, even if we are constantly taking damages from RF.
This would not be possible without ZO keystone.

On your last statment, considering the amount of peoples that succesfully played this build, you can be sure the build is working, so you sure are missing something. ;)

NB : The pastebin used in the screens :
zzang's : https://pastebin.com/jvGEv6ez
mine : https://pastebin.com/VYGMMR78

I'm still gathering ressources to finish some stuff like leveling my gems up, getting decent boots or getting a purity of fire lvl 21 as right now my character is still a bit of a mess here and there however i've messed a lot with PoB and so far i'm still failling to see how you're supposed to play this character without a stupidly expensive watcher eye.

Damages isn't an issue, surviability is and without this jewel i really don't understand how you're supposed to be above 500 net regen. After all the testing i've done, watcher eye seems to be the only answer here.
Sure i've way better regen when activating flasks but it quickly becomes an issue against a strong boss.

anyway, how important is life rolls on your rare items? is it better to get a mana or life affixe ?
also, I'm thinking of dropping Purity of lightning for Purity of elements for conveniance.. ideally i would have replace purity of ice to get rid of the dex requirement however the max cold res is way too good agaisnt end game bosses (i'm very far from doing that tho)

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

I'm not asking a generic question about how RF works, I'm asking about *this build*.

Please post your PoB of *this build* as current 3.6 version in start post have over 2000 regen without config and without flasks.
Also please care about correct quotes as in your last post the quotes you've posted as mine are not really mine.