Announcements - Development Manifesto: Energy Shield and Life - Forum

" CBEToffOP wrote: How regretful. I want to ask you: What the difference between LIFE and ES builds with instant leech? NONE except that ES pool is higher which helps to withstand hard blows (ELEMENTAL ONLY)! (Life/Armour will mitigate physical damage, while Life/Evasion gives evasion to all attack types)! But you have to remember that ES builds sacrifices nodes/item slots/flasks slots to counter STUN/FREEZE/etc. which come non stop on red maps while life based have better in this aspect (the more life the better)! If ES as you say will be CUT DOWN at high-end levels SO WHY YOU REMOVING INSTANT LEECH FOR ES? Instead of balancing ES values you CUT DOWN builds VARIETY. WHY THERE CAN'T BE ES INSTANT LEECH BUILDS? sigh.. http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Atziri%27s_Acuity combine with http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ghost_Reaver Last edited by caffarella on May 20, 2017, 10:54:00 PM	Posted by caffarella on May 20, 2017, 10:52:15 PM Quote this Post
" caffarella wrote: " CBEToffOP wrote: How regretful. I want to ask you: What the difference between LIFE and ES builds with instant leech? NONE except that ES pool is higher which helps to withstand hard blows (ELEMENTAL ONLY)! (Life/Armour will mitigate physical damage, while Life/Evasion gives evasion to all attack types)! But you have to remember that ES builds sacrifices nodes/item slots/flasks slots to counter STUN/FREEZE/etc. which come non stop on red maps while life based have better in this aspect (the more life the better)! If ES as you say will be CUT DOWN at high-end levels SO WHY YOU REMOVING INSTANT LEECH FOR ES? Instead of balancing ES values you CUT DOWN builds VARIETY. WHY THERE CAN'T BE ES INSTANT LEECH BUILDS? sigh.. http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Atziri%27s_Acuity combine with http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ghost_Reaver they've already stated they will be changing items with instant leech to not work with ES. The reason this needs to happen (in fact they will quickly see in beta now that they're actually focused on this is that it just needs to be deleted from the game) is that instant leech is far more effective at mitigating damage than any other 2 layers of defense combined. It also synergizes with more DPS instead of suffering lower DPS as a opportunity cost for obtaining it like every other defensive layer. Defense should cost offense (passives used for damage or items used for damage) not scale by your offense with no downside. Righteous Fire for example burns YOU for nearly double what it burns Enemies for. Vaal pact just removed regen from builds that predominantly have negligible access to it, being that there's exactly 3% available in that entire half of the tree. Also someone using lots of Leech instead of Vaal pact is investing far more for far less benefit. you can spend 12 passives and 6 or 7 travel nodes for a left side melee build almost 20 points of investment, and those twenty points wont equal half what you get from vaal pact for 7 or 8 points, 1 for the keystone and 6 or 7 to travel there through the Scion area from the left side. Even cheaper for the OP Shadow and Ranger Ascendancies like Assassin and Pathfinder. POE is designed as a Hard core game, and people who want to faceroll content or have easy or obvious build choices should be regularly disappointed. If you're crying about ES and Vaal pact nerfs: this means you. You are literaly NOT POE's target market so by all means stick around and play if you can hack it, but please, make no mistake: crying about the game not remaining a faceroll for you is embarassing, have some self respect. "only 10% of players care about melee" - Aesop's Fox if he was a GGG dev "when you die in this game, typically you're getting one shot, you're dieing in one frame; almost always" -Ben_	Posted by alhazred70 on May 21, 2017, 4:15:36 AM Quote this Post
" alhazred70 wrote: " caffarella wrote: " CBEToffOP wrote: How regretful. I want to ask you: What the difference between LIFE and ES builds with instant leech? NONE except that ES pool is higher which helps to withstand hard blows (ELEMENTAL ONLY)! (Life/Armour will mitigate physical damage, while Life/Evasion gives evasion to all attack types)! But you have to remember that ES builds sacrifices nodes/item slots/flasks slots to counter STUN/FREEZE/etc. which come non stop on red maps while life based have better in this aspect (the more life the better)! If ES as you say will be CUT DOWN at high-end levels SO WHY YOU REMOVING INSTANT LEECH FOR ES? Instead of balancing ES values you CUT DOWN builds VARIETY. WHY THERE CAN'T BE ES INSTANT LEECH BUILDS? sigh.. http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Atziri%27s_Acuity combine with http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ghost_Reaver they've already stated they will be changing items with instant leech to not work with ES. The reason this needs to happen (in fact they will quickly see in beta now that they're actually focused on this is that it just needs to be deleted from the game) is that instant leech is far more effective at mitigating damage than any other 2 layers of defense combined. It also synergizes with more DPS instead of suffering lower DPS as a opportunity cost for obtaining it like every other defensive layer. Defense should cost offense (passives used for damage or items used for damage) not scale by your offense with no downside. Righteous Fire for example burns YOU for nearly double what it burns Enemies for. Vaal pact just removed regen from builds that predominantly have negligible access to it, being that there's exactly 3% available in that entire half of the tree. Also someone using lots of Leech instead of Vaal pact is investing far more for far less benefit. you can spend 12 passives and 6 or 7 travel nodes for a left side melee build almost 20 points of investment, and those twenty points wont equal half what you get from vaal pact for 7 or 8 points, 1 for the keystone and 6 or 7 to travel there through the Scion area from the left side. Even cheaper for the OP Shadow and Ranger Ascendancies like Assassin and Pathfinder. POE is designed as a Hard core game, and people who want to faceroll content or have easy or obvious build choices should be regularly disappointed. If you're crying about ES and Vaal pact nerfs: this means you. You are literaly NOT POE's target market so by all means stick around and play if you can hack it, but please, make no mistake: crying about the game not remaining a faceroll for you is embarassing, have some self respect. Ew...changes occurs to atziri acuity.. but does this changes means to happen like chaos conversion last version? they did change it without leaving legacy version of the item? if they gonna nerf instant leech mechanism from items too, please make it without leaving legacy blablabla item. i'm actually agree with what GGG plan in this manifesto, ES really overwhelm life in terms of late game.. for few chaos,under 10c maybe, i got 4k hp with moderate defenses with life based.. yet for ES, i can reach 9-11k (with ascend bonus) which net me a lot of benefit such as higher leech rate (20% from 10k far better than 4k ofc) not one shot by few bosses and same mechanism available such as AA/IC/EC saves me a lot in bad situation.. and not to mention free recharge, i just need to walk around without taking any dmg to get "free flask without charge" which won't happen in life build.. i often found myself dead when flask out of charges but still, i'm still pessimistic does this nerf can be called too harsh or not, so for me i will see how far nerf in beta i guess sorry for the engrish, not my native language Last edited by caffarella on May 21, 2017, 7:30:56 AM	Posted by caffarella on May 21, 2017, 7:27:03 AM Quote this Post
Maybe MoM could work with ES now..	Posted by Guliadkinn on May 21, 2017, 9:46:40 AM Quote this Post
" alhazred70 wrote: " caffarella wrote: " CBEToffOP wrote: How regretful. I want to ask you: What the difference between LIFE and ES builds with instant leech? NONE except that ES pool is higher which helps to withstand hard blows (ELEMENTAL ONLY)! (Life/Armour will mitigate physical damage, while Life/Evasion gives evasion to all attack types)! But you have to remember that ES builds sacrifices nodes/item slots/flasks slots to counter STUN/FREEZE/etc. which come non stop on red maps while life based have better in this aspect (the more life the better)! If ES as you say will be CUT DOWN at high-end levels SO WHY YOU REMOVING INSTANT LEECH FOR ES? Instead of balancing ES values you CUT DOWN builds VARIETY. WHY THERE CAN'T BE ES INSTANT LEECH BUILDS? sigh.. http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Atziri%27s_Acuity combine with http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ghost_Reaver they've already stated they will be changing items with instant leech to not work with ES. The reason this needs to happen (in fact they will quickly see in beta now that they're actually focused on this is that it just needs to be deleted from the game) is that instant leech is far more effective at mitigating damage than any other 2 layers of defense combined. It also synergizes with more DPS instead of suffering lower DPS as a opportunity cost for obtaining it like every other defensive layer. Defense should cost offense (passives used for damage or items used for damage) not scale by your offense with no downside. Righteous Fire for example burns YOU for nearly double what it burns Enemies for. Vaal pact just removed regen from builds that predominantly have negligible access to it, being that there's exactly 3% available in that entire half of the tree. Also someone using lots of Leech instead of Vaal pact is investing far more for far less benefit. you can spend 12 passives and 6 or 7 travel nodes for a left side melee build almost 20 points of investment, and those twenty points wont equal half what you get from vaal pact for 7 or 8 points, 1 for the keystone and 6 or 7 to travel there through the Scion area from the left side. Even cheaper for the OP Shadow and Ranger Ascendancies like Assassin and Pathfinder. POE is designed as a Hard core game, and people who want to faceroll content or have easy or obvious build choices should be regularly disappointed. If you're crying about ES and Vaal pact nerfs: this means you. You are literaly NOT POE's target market so by all means stick around and play if you can hack it, but please, make no mistake: crying about the game not remaining a faceroll for you is embarassing, have some self respect. Not enough Hard core players to support the game financially. Most people have jobs and cannot spend 14 hours a day playing a game in their parents basement. Sounds like your out of touch with reality.	Posted by Abetow2531 on May 21, 2017, 2:06:18 PM Quote this Post
Yes true I agree with ES nerf too. But no rip it - let the players play ES too with instant leech if would like and already support ggg and love to play ES builds. SO nerf is okey. But rip mean like coc discharge in old times. I can name minimum 100 players who loved coc - who cared - ripped it - these players left poe. Shortly until there are flippers in poe - 1 week need with flipping only and players are unkillable with any build. So explain this too....	Posted by Ant02 on May 21, 2017, 2:27:30 PM Quote this Post
Still nerf and new items are really good idea !!!! (True personally I play ES only since 4 years so if nerf it than I continue but if rip - 80-90% chance I left poe too because all money in ES gear.) Not these changes resolve the main problem I think.	Posted by Ant02 on May 21, 2017, 2:32:10 PM Quote this Post
It is laughable! INSTANT LEECH and ES! The problem was too BIG ES POOL with high-tier items! Now when ES will be nerfed: 1) BASE ES on all items and skill. 2) NO "MORE" node in tree behind CI. 3) Lower % nodes. With this all balances, ES will be closer to Life+Armor/Evasion. SO I DON'T SEE WHY ES build CAN'T INSTANT LEECH BUT LIFE CAN! If life based player won't die from one-shoot with instant leech he will restore all life, the same as for ES! For GGG: If you want remove Vaal Pact, REMOVE IT FOR ALL, NOT ONLY ES! ALSO I WANT TO REMIND YOU ALL: MIND OVER MATTER! YOU ALL FORGETTING THIS TYPE OF MITIGATION MECHANISM, WHICH IS ONLY FOR LIFE BASED!	Posted by CBEToffOP on May 22, 2017, 3:29:21 AM Quote this Post
Finally somebody thinking the same what I mean ;D Yes lower ES is okey. But what if life can leech - ES can't? So nobody will play ES since that is trash if can't leech - not have flasks like with life builds. And dont forget the armour/evasion - you can get lower damage. But how ES doing traps ? survive a pack of mobs ? survive bosses ? while can't leech ?? Not thoughtful idea.	Posted by Ant02 on May 22, 2017, 4:07:52 AM Quote this Post
You all seem to forget that ES (with respect to physical incoming damage) does not have armor/evasion mitigation, since you can't reach high enough ES levels with hybrid items. You also lose 2 prefixes (+ES, %ES), whereas with life you can easily get tons of evasion/armor and have to only spend one prefix (+life). How can anyone honestly say that high ES values have no downside when it comes to phys damage? The only problems of ES as it is are 1. good resistance to high damage elemental hits 2. gorillion/sec instant leech Therefore, make ele more taxing on ES and lower the leech rate. That should be quite enough, don't you think? For example, make +ES and %ES suffixes. Or one of them, at least. 1k ES + 48 tri-res chests should not exist. Last edited by havz0r on May 22, 2017, 9:06:42 AM	Posted by havz0r on May 22, 2017, 8:57:19 AM Quote this Post