New orb to fix non-viable builds that die a lot

For instance, what do you think about the "Gain 10% Life, respec 2 skill points" suggestion?
I'm sure a "tanky" guy wouldn't want to have less and less skill points in his PST just to gain a "little" life right?

NOBODY would respec 2 skill points for 10% life (because they can use 2 skill points to get 16% life with two "+8% increased life" nodes), unless they are desperate enough to get life

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gonzaw wrote:

For instance, what do you think about the "Gain 10% Life, respec 2 skill points" suggestion?
I'm sure a "tanky" guy wouldn't want to have less and less skill points in his PST just to gain a "little" life right?

NOBODY would respec 2 skill points for 10% life (because they can use 2 skill points to get 16% life with two "+8% increased life" nodes), unless they are desperate enough to get life

Well, the DPS build would lose the 2 skill points too and doesn't benefit from 10% life as much as a tanky build (see my example). I don't like the idea that people gain (or lose) permanently stats by an orb. The only way to get stats should be with equipment, gems and skilltree.

That's why I made the suggestion with limited aid-orbs (I call them now like that), because they are there to help people to have enough survivability for like 20 levels (20 hours with +30% on all defensive stats+life should be more then enough to make 20 levels in early/mid game). At a certain time/level, a build should be playable even without the aid-orb and if that's not the case, you should respec some skill points and invest them in survivability or just give the character up and start over. PoE is about trying out stuff and probably making mistakes. But PoE is not just unforgiving. It's rewarding too! Just imagine you make a second character after your failed first one and see how much you have learned from the first playthrough. You use that experience to build a nice character with a little thought behind it and you now know how to fight without dying so fast.

This experience just feels good, it's rewarding and that's what PoE is about. Making your own experiences and use that to immerge even further into the depth of the game.

I know that you try to find a solution for not-viable builds who have a hard time due to not having a good survivability. But right now I think your suggestion ist just the wrong way to help those builds. No offense man. :)

I don't like using "time" either.

What if I spend more time in town, trading with people maybe, or arranging my stash, and maybe I keep logged in but go somewhere else and keep the game playing in the background?
The 20 hours will be maybe before I gain even 1 level.

It basically forces you to rush through everything just to "survive". Surviving isn't about rushing.


I know, if you make a "bad" build, you could create a new one, learn from your mistakes, and play better and the like
But I don't think it's good design to force "bad" builds into a dead-end they can't get out of no matter what. I don't think it's good design to force people to re-roll their char.

To some people (casuals most likely), it basically means "wasting" like lots and lots of hours and time (maybe weeks, etc). They don't want that, and they can't keep playing with their "bad" build either, so they just don't play at all and get frustrated and the like.

I have a single build right now, a lvl 41 Ranger, and if soon I hit that "dead-end" (I hope not, I think I'm building it good enough....but you never know. Again, this problem stems from the fact you don't know your build is "bad" until it's too late), I'm not creating a new char and leveling it up to lvl 40 just to "get to the same spot".
I'll most likely take a break from the game and come back some months later with a fresher mind.


So, what do you think is the actual solution?
Choose one of these two:
1)Make people figure out earlier their build is "bad" so they can change it as they level up
2)Make them able to keep playing once they reach the "dead-end" by taking some "desperate" measures.

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gonzaw wrote:

I don't like using "time" either.

What if I spend more time in town, trading with people maybe, or arranging my stash, and maybe I keep logged in but go somewhere else and keep the game playing in the background?
The 20 hours will be maybe before I gain even 1 level.

It basically forces you to rush through everything just to "survive". Surviving isn't about rushing.

Time is not the problem. You could disable that the timercounts when you are offline or in the town. Would that satisfy you? So you would have the full 2 hours only when you are out fighting.

And if you use an orb, it's like you would say:

"If someone choose to use an orb, they are fully responsible for what they do with the given time."

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gonzaw wrote:

I know, if you make a "bad" build, you could create a new one, learn from your mistakes, and play better and the like
But I don't think it's good design to force "bad" builds into a dead-end they can't get out of no matter what. I don't think it's good design to force people to re-roll their char.

And I think it's a good game design. I can't even imagine how someone can screw up their build in a way that it is UNPLAYABLE and not correctable with some respec points/regret orbs. If someone comes into a deadend without being able to respec and not being able to get some more levels, then this build is just shit. A complete new character would be a much better option for that person anyway.

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gonzaw wrote:

To some people (casuals most likely), it basically means "wasting" like lots and lots of hours and time (maybe weeks, etc). They don't want that, and they can't keep playing with their "bad" build either, so they just don't play at all and get frustrated and the like.

This is an aRPG for people who like to hardcore grind. It is NOT for casuals! And that's what you stated right now, your suggestion is made for casuals most likely. (Hard-)Coregamers wouldn't have a problem to start over. They wouldn't need such an orb as yours. GGG already said that this is an old-fashion, unforgiving grind game from coregamers to coregamers. I'm happy about that decision and if some casuals can't get along with this principles, I'm fine with that, let them play Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. A game where they can't mess up their builds so easily.

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gonzaw wrote:

I have a single build right now, a lvl 41 Ranger, and if soon I hit that "dead-end" (I hope not, I think I'm building it good enough....but you never know. Again, this problem stems from the fact you don't know your build is "bad" until it's too late), I'm not creating a new char and leveling it up to lvl 40 just to "get to the same spot".
I'll most likely take a break from the game and come back some months later with a fresher mind.

And that's good. If you need a break to get a fresh mind, then be it so. But then your second char will be alot better and the community is very helpful. If you meet such a deadend, post your current build/equipment here in the forum and some people will help you.

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gonzaw wrote:

So, what do you think is the actual solution?
Choose one of these two:
1)Make people figure out earlier their build is "bad" so they can change it as they level up
2)Make them able to keep playing once they reach the "dead-end" by taking some "desperate" measures.

3) none of your suggestion... Like I said, the game is intended to let people think about their decisions. It's all about learning and redoing stuff after you may have failed once. If people are not sure about their builds they have made, they can post it here and ask for feedback. There are enough experienced players here who can tell you when and how you may get a problem with the build you planned. No need for aid-orbs.

I guess we can just agree to disagree, it's not good design in my mind.

The game itself should slightly "guide" you on whether you are doing a fine job or not, as you go through each act and difficulty, etc.
From the experiences of most people that "complain" about it, that doesn't happen and they mostly hit an instant brick wall where they can't do anything.

No matter how the game is "designed" in mind (if it's designed towards hardcore gamers or what not), that's not a good issue in my mind.
Again, take that "path" analogy I made. That's not good design in my mind, no matter the game.

But oh well.

Nonetheless, this orb does help that issue, and if you are a "hardcore" dude you will never even see it (again, remember the "0% chance to drop unless you farm the same area" thing), so what's the harm? :)

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Logun24x7 wrote:

Look at this thing .....


http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree

This is scary shit .... would it be that much to give players 10 regret points per act to allow for a bit of experimentation.

Make it per difficulty, and I'm with ya. :)

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AceNightfire wrote:

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gonzaw wrote:

So, what do you think is the actual solution?
Choose one of these two:
1)Make people figure out earlier their build is "bad" so they can change it as they level up
2)Make them able to keep playing once they reach the "dead-end" by taking some "desperate" measures.

3) none of your suggestion... Like I said, the game is intended to let people think about their decisions. It's all about learning and redoing stuff after you may have failed once. If people are not sure about their builds they have made, they can post it here and ask for feedback. There are enough experienced players here who can tell you when and how you may get a problem with the build you planned. No need for aid-orbs.

The orbs *are* the desperate measures which would allow users to respec large parts of their trees. Making them a little more abundant ... I can see the case for that. I'd never agree to the idea of a full respec, but a few more regret orbs, sounds like it wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Of course, people will always want more and more, no matter how much they give us...