Donald Trump and US politics

Krillson. Hmm. They will never figure out the truth. Muhahahah

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DalaiLama wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

We already know that the Russians did attempt to have an influence on the election. We need to know the how and the what related to that.

We "know" no such thing. There has not been ONE SINGLE piece of incontrovertible evidence. When outsiders have looked at the supposed evidence shown, it was laughed at as easily faked or manipulated and proof of NOTHING. Even if the people who routinely post in Off Topic knew zero about hacking and spoofing, with a week's online research (more like a day's work) we could do the same sort of spoofing and make it look like GGG hacked the DNC, and claim that Krillson masterminded the influence over the US election.

So are you in disagreement with all of the US intelligent agencies that say that the Russians did actively try to influence the 2016 election? Do you think that the whole Russian attack is nothing more than fake news pushed on Americans by the media?

Do you think that the recent election interference "leak" by that woman contractor was fake news? Was she framed? Were the documents that she leaked not real?

Regarding my supporter pack, I am not president of the US and my purchase of a supporter pack is public. You know that I spent $60 to get it. I only want trump to reveal what his financial connection is. The fact that he won't tell us is the problem. Do you think that the American people have the right to know if he has any financial connections to Russia since he is both leading the country and making earth shaking decisions that will affect every citizen. He can easily show whether or not he has such ties. His not doing so only makes him look guilty of hiding things.

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DalaiLama wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

We already know that the Russians did attempt to have an influence on the election. We need to know the how and the what related to that.

We "know" no such thing. There has not been ONE SINGLE piece of incontrovertible evidence. When outsiders have looked at the supposed evidence shown, it was laughed at as easily faked or manipulated and proof of NOTHING. Even if the people who routinely post in Off Topic knew zero about hacking and spoofing, with a week's online research (more like a day's work) we could do the same sort of spoofing and make it look like GGG hacked the DNC, and claim that Krillson masterminded the influence over the US election.

Do you really believe that something as easy as spoofing prevents someone from being retraced? Spoofing is a complete joke for anyone that's able to hack into something and yet, these hackers get retraced, arrested and prosecuted (assuming they are in a country that allow it to happen).

Please stop thinking something as basic as spoofing prevents others from retracing you.

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ChanBalam wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

We already know that the Russians did attempt to have an influence on the election. We need to know the how and the what related to that.

We "know" no such thing. There has not been ONE SINGLE piece of incontrovertible evidence. When outsiders have looked at the supposed evidence shown, it was laughed at as easily faked or manipulated and proof of NOTHING. Even if the people who routinely post in Off Topic knew zero about hacking and spoofing, with a week's online research (more like a day's work) we could do the same sort of spoofing and make it look like GGG hacked the DNC, and claim that Krillson masterminded the influence over the US election.

So are you in disagreement with all of the US intelligent agencies that say that the Russians did actively try to influence the 2016 election? Do you think that the whole Russian attack is nothing more than fake news pushed on Americans by the media?

Do you think that the recent election interference "leak" by that woman contractor was fake news? Was she framed? Were the documents that she leaked not real?

Regarding my supporter pack, I am not president of the US and my purchase of a supporter pack is public. You know that I spent $60 to get it. I only want trump to reveal what his financial connection is. The fact that he won't tell us is the problem. Do you think that the American people have the right to know if he has any financial connections to Russia since he is both leading the country and making earth shaking decisions that will affect every citizen. He can easily show whether or not he has such ties. His not doing so only makes him look guilty of hiding things.

I'd be surprised if Russia didn't try to hack the US election every 4 years.

The only thing that's important (aside from preventing them from succeeding), is if there was collusion between a runner up and the attacker.

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ChanBalam wrote:

So are you in disagreement with all of the US intelligent agencies that say that the Russians did actively try to influence the 2016 election? Do you think that the whole Russian attack is nothing more than fake news pushed on Americans by the media?

There's another facet to this that is being conveniently ignored.

Let's agree that the Russians tried to attack election infrastructure (as leaked by Reality Winner in the NSA dump, not talking about the DNC or Podesta e-mails).

What does that have to do with Trump?
How often do they try to hack elections, regardless of candidate?
How much of it is based solely on hating Clinton and has nothing to do with the other candidates?

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pneuma wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

So are you in disagreement with all of the US intelligent agencies that say that the Russians did actively try to influence the 2016 election? Do you think that the whole Russian attack is nothing more than fake news pushed on Americans by the media?

There's another facet to this that is being conveniently ignored.

Let's agree that the Russians tried to attack election infrastructure (as leaked by Reality Winner in the NSA dump, not talking about the DNC or Podesta e-mails).

What does that have to do with Trump?
How often do they try to hack elections, regardless of candidate?
How much of it is based solely on hating Clinton and has nothing to do with the other candidates?

Well, since Trump administration has ties to the Russian administration and Trump was relatively warm to Putin, it's kind of normal to investigate if there was or not a collusion, especially if the hacking attempts were unusual (either by it happening when it normally doesn't or if the number of attempts were).

Also, I have a feeling it's not hating on Clinton but favoring Trump because he was praising Putin.


Now, since this information (regarding hack attempts) is highly classified, we'll probably never know.



It's also quite obvious that Russia had a vested interest in making Trump win (otherwise they wouldn't have leaked that information regarding Hillary). Not that it means there was collusion between Trump and Putin, but one can (and should) look into it.

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pneuma wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

So are you in disagreement with all of the US intelligent agencies that say that the Russians did actively try to influence the 2016 election? Do you think that the whole Russian attack is nothing more than fake news pushed on Americans by the media?

There's another facet to this that is being conveniently ignored.

Let's agree that the Russians tried to attack election infrastructure (as leaked by Reality Winner in the NSA dump, not talking about the DNC or Podesta e-mails).

What does that have to do with Trump?
How often do they try to hack elections, regardless of candidate?
How much of it is based solely on hating Clinton and has nothing to do with the other candidates?

I have not seen proof of anything. More WNDs in Iraq lies from our so-called intel agencies.

These are same intel agency who thinks KSA is our greatest ally when they are responsible for all Islamic racialism with their Wahhabi ideology.

I'd trust a homeless BUM on the street before NSA/CIA/FBI and other three letter idiots - he has more honor.

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鬼殺し wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

Do you deny that both Trump and Kushner have had past business dealings with Russian money sources?

You have a support pack by your name - which means you spent some amount of money with GGG.

GGG through Garena and supporters receives some of its income from Russian people. Therefore, you have had business dealings with Russian money sources.

How can we trust you?

That was a shitty comparison and you know it.

It was put forward as an intentionally bad comparison. Just because people shake hands, or money changes hands does not mean anything nefarious happened.

When large amounts of money change hands or politicians are involved, we tend to be skeptical, naturally because of both the potential for abuse and the number of historical precedents.
When you get to the level of billionaires, things are no longer separated by six degrees.

We have pictures of Trump and the Clintons together, does this mean Hillary secretly influenced the elections to help Trump win? We have the Clinton Foundation receiving a great deal of money from foreign sources, including a very large amount from Russia - and that timing of that donation reeks of her decision on the Uranium One deal.

Yet, when the conversation turns to "The Russsians" we aren't seeing the criticism of the other deals, only Trump's. Before anyone points out that he is president and not Hillary, the same thing was true during the election, and true when Hillary was a government official and Trump had not even decided to run.

Keep in mind it wasn't Donald Trump who said:

"We should have made sure that we did something to determine who was going to win"
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Recording-released-of-Clinton-suggesting-rigging-2006-Palestinian-election-471129

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/792147717938089984

There was a clearer link up on SoundCloud, but the one I had bookmarked is gone now. I did find a working link though. You can listen to Hillary say it herself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr4Z0CCp40Y

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ChanBalam wrote:

This whole Russia thing will go away when the following questions get answered. By answering these, the White House, can put all of this to rest and shut the Dems up. It looks like the White House does not want to answer these questions, so they are making things worse. They are building the Dems case for a cover up.

• How and to what extent did the Russians interfere with the election and did it have any substantial impact?

• Who from the Trump campaign communicated with which Russians, when and why? Why did all of those people try to keep those meetings secret? The appearance of impropriety.

• Michael Flynn, his money, his foreign ties, his hiring, firing, etc. all need to be explained. Hiring a known foreign agent to the top National security job is pretty astonishing.

• What are Trump’s business ties to Russian financing/money, if any? What are Jared’s ties to Russian money if any? Trump needs to clear up the suspicion that he is financially tied to Putin.

• Trump needs to explain what looks like multiple attempts to distract from or sideline the investigation into Russian connections.

If there is nothing there, Trump should be able to show that, otherwise this will drag on for many more months.

I posted the above questions a few pages back. Here is what I've heard from Trump supporters:

On Russian Interference: Never happened; no proof; all the US intelligence agencies are corrupt and can't be trusted; its all about Hillary; the media made it all up.

Trump campaign communications with Russians: no response;

Michael Flynn: no response

Business ties to Russia: Doing business with Russia is not a crime.

Trump efforts to sideline investigation: no response.

Overall, responders have just labeled me as part of the witch hunt; an anti trump librul who cannot accept defeat, or I offer nothing but biased bullshit.

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ChanBalam wrote:

So are you in disagreement with all of the US intelligent agencies

That "ALL" was part of the reason data specialists started looking into the claims of Russian hacking in the first place. Only 3 of the agencies normally investigate such issues, and only 2 of them are normally charged with issuing any public statements or decisions.

It would be like the Department of Quilting issuing a statement on their investigation into new international fishing regulations. If you really think all 17 agencies scrutinized the data - US Coast Guard as one - AHEM - then that's on you.

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ChanBalam wrote:

that say that the Russians did actively try to influence the 2016 election? Do you think that the whole Russian attack is nothing more than fake news pushed on Americans by the media?

I Do, absolutely. The Russians may have WANTED Hillary not to win, due to bad blood, but imagine if they actually had been working against her and she became president? Look at the bad blood between the Clintons and Obama (seen best through various rejected appointees) largely because Hillary opposed Barack. From what the insiders say, Obama actually wanted the FBI to prosecute Hillary, but when it became clear she was going to be the nominee, Obama and Loretta Lynch had to do some furious coverup work, because losing the election would expose all of them.

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ChanBalam wrote:

Do you think that the recent election interference "leak" by that woman contractor was fake news? Was she framed? Were the documents that she leaked not real?

As I mentioned before, there is no evidence. We have an "analysis" document, that could likely be real. It is an opinion piece, and if we had an honest government, we should be able to trust it. As we have seen with Comey and Lynch and others, we do not have an honest government, nor a trustworthy intelligence community. This wouldn't be the first, second or third time that the intelligence community went rogue. Congress had to pass specific laws and establish oversight committees to try and keep them in check. If outside agencies with expertise were to verify that the data was conclusive and not just spoofed IPs, then I would believe the leaked information. Until then, for all I know, the US Coast guard put it together during their lunch break.

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ChanBalam wrote:

Regarding my supporter pack, I am not president of the US

Not yet, but just in case, Obama has tapped your phones.

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ChanBalam wrote:

and my purchase of a supporter pack is public. You know that I spent $60 to get it. I only want trump to reveal what his financial connection is.

Any accountant worthy of their license could spend a few days or weeks and look up information and make all the financial connections Trump has with any Russian entities. If I were a bettor, I would wager big money that hundreds of people have already dug deeply into Trump's financial dealings, and furthermore, that if they had found anything it would be CNN's headline news for a solid week.

They haven't, so it isn't.

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ChanBalam wrote:

The fact that he won't tell us is the problem.

If he did, they would just say he was lying, and ask for more proof and more proof and more proof.

What's worse, is that we have reports saying that this entire "Russian" scheme was created by the powers within the DNC during a specific week after the election. No hacked email proofs of this yet, but with the laxity of DNC security, it is just a matter of time.

The American people do have a right to know, subject to reasonable limits. There is no sign of any limits on this witch hunt.

Here is what will happen. Loretta Lynch is going to be investigated and with the warrants for her digital information, the story of the left about Russia will emerge as a contrived lie.

You are right to be skeptical. You also have the right to get honest information about what they really know. That is what you should be looking for, not some tax forms.