Death Penalties

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zeto wrote:

I'll preface this with the thought that %loss should ONLY affect specific ladders to create a steady state penalty whereby too many deaths = no progress for people who wish to play as such.

While I and Ness liked the way it did mean no progress in some versions of D2. The effect didn't really kick in till you reached mid 80s level and most people would have played through all the game content before level 80.

I assume it isn't going to be that difficult to avoid death in this game, hardcore modes would be ridiculous if frequent death was inevitable.

I also would want it in the default world, too many long lasting leagues fragments the playing community.

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zeto wrote:

I've already stated this in my rule set, but I don't think it should be possible to lose hours of progress...

In hardcore you loose everything. In D2 softcore at high levels you could loose weeks of progress. I was OK with that, we used to watch the top of the ladder and a single death was quite obvious, it could push someone 10 places down. The top of the ladder was a pretty exclusive place but a fair proportion of the playing community were interested and a proportion of those were involved helping ladder climbers.

Ladders are totally different though. When you join a ladder there can be various rule changes.

When not in a ladder stuff like this just shouldn't be possible. Inside a ladder anything goes.

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zeto wrote:

Ladders are totally different though. When you join a ladder there can be various rule changes.

At the time the ladder was a 'high scores list' for the realm. No option, you made a new character you were on the current ladder with the same rules as everyone else.

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Fluffy wrote:

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zeto wrote:

Ladders are totally different though. When you join a ladder there can be various rule changes.

At the time the ladder was a 'high scores list' for the realm. No option, you made a new character you were on the current ladder with the same rules as everyone else.

I was talking about here tho, cuz I mean, D2's systems can be related back to POE, but D2 is dead to me :P

Ladders here can do whatever they want with the ladder, however there definitely needs to be a place for people to play the entire game without losing hours and hours of time due to death.

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zeto wrote:

there definitely needs to be a place for people to play the entire game without losing hours and hours of time due to death.

They can do that on the lower difficulty settings. I expect this game to offer a significant challenge, especially in the later levels.

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tpapp157 wrote:

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zeto wrote:

there definitely needs to be a place for people to play the entire game without losing hours and hours of time due to death.

They can do that on the lower difficulty settings. I expect this game to offer a significant challenge, especially in the later levels.

Difficulty settings usually change the way the game is played. If they cannot progress in the harder difficulty setting due to death penalties then they aren't able to complete the game content. I do not think this should be possible on the non-ladder regular base game.

You can slow down their progress, but they should never be moving backwards. In fact if I am bad at playing you can slow my progress down to a crawl, but the minute I start seeing myself going backwards I probably won't be playing for long.

You can never go down in level. I think that's a good enough stopping point to keep people from losing too much ground.

Eh, the more I think about it in essence, %loss *IS* the debt system mathematically within a single level. Their mechanisms are just different...

The outcome of this is that I shouldn't be as hostile towards %loss, but people shouldn't be opposed to a debt system either... they are essentially the same, except potentially at the VERY extremes where %loss can result in a reduction in xp gain that is extremely large.

In the same way you could end up with such a huge XP debt that you wouldn't actually gain a single XP for hours of play until you paid it off. At least with XP loss the penalty is inflicted all at once and then you're back in the fight gaining XP as normal.

Over the course of a level though it shouldn't make a difference.

Debt penalty:

190xp per minute due to 4 death penalty debts, 31.58 minutes= 6000 xp

xp loss:

200xp per minute, 4 deaths at 5% loss per death, 31.58 minutes = 6000 xp

Exactly the same. No matter how many times you die there will be an equilibrium between xp debt and %loss... the only factors involved in that equilibrium are the rates you lose...

The difference is ultimately that one is a discreet math problem and the other is a continuously differentiable math problem.