Nerf life nodes... while boosting base life so life itself isn't nerfed

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Schnupfndrache7 wrote:

another side effect of boosting base life is that it would make Koam Heart less OP !

Kaom isn't op. It gives +1000 life, but it has no gemsockets and no other mods like resistances.

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Schnupfndrache7 wrote:

another side effect of boosting base life is that it would make Koam Heart less OP !

Kaom isn't op. It gives +1000 life, but it has no gemsockets and no other mods like resistances.

Yeah, it's not OP. That's why it's worth 30 exalts and a wet dream for any build that can use it...

Health nodes are more valuable than just about all other nodes. This is a good suggestion to help with this balance.

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Schnupfndrache7 wrote:

another side effect of boosting base life is that it would make Koam Heart less OP !

Kaom isn't op. It gives +1000 life, but it has no gemsockets and no other mods like resistances.

Kaom's Heart is OP. However, uniques -- especially uniques with a drawback -- should be a little OP; otherwise, they're not special. Kaom's after my suggestion would be a little less powerful, but hopefully still worth using and valuable.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@GutenTag

Let's see what happens to level 65 Energy Shield characters with no life nodes, 104 Strength, and 5k ES before Chaos Inoculation/Infused Shield (CI+IS).

Current System
* With CI+IS: -491 life, +1000 ES, stuns/freezes counted against 492 life
* Non-CI: 492 life against chaos damage, unless focus on life nodes; stuns/freezes counted against 492 life

My Suggestion
* With CI+IS: -923 life, +1000 ES (CI is still an upgrade), stuns/freezes counted against 924 life
* Non-CI: 924 life against chaos damage, unless focus on life nodes; stuns/freezes counted against 924 life

Verdict
* CI: Straight-up buff, no drawbacks.
* Non-CI: Since we're assuming no life nodes, straight-up buff, no drawbacks.

you misunderstood - i never said that it would result in a nerf to CI or energy builds. It's just the comparison of life to ES builds that wouldn't make sense anymore. Of course it would be somekind of a small buff even for ES builds (although for CI, even with double the base life you would still need to be stun immune) - but it would a major buff to life builds, which at this point - would just be flat out always be superior to ES builds.

guess what im trying to say is: buff to life builds >>>>>> buff to ES builds

@GutenTag

It's not a buff to life builds, it's a nerf to life builds -- that is, stacking life nodes. The buff is to base life, which is almost totally build independent (excluding gear, which isn't buffed anyway, and Strength, which is fairly accessible to all). The take-every-life-node-you-see mentality gets pretty much no benefit from my suggestion, maybe a very light nerf; the people who are heavily buffed are those who take less life nodes and get something else instead.... like energy shield. You have the "who gets buffed/who gets nerfed" on this one completely backwards.

CI will be less popular, but that decreased popularity will be the result of competition from non-CI ES builds, which will be much more viable with this suggestion -- chaos will be a more manageable threat, so resorting to things like Shavronne's and CI will be less of a necessity. ES users across the board will have better stun and freeze recovery.

As previously discussed, the only ES build that's nerfed by this is ZORF, because more life is actually a drawback for that one.

Well...
Try converting few attack nodes into hybrid attack/defense on same node

Example:
Instead of adding 8% life on a node, add 4% life and 6% melee physical damage on a node

@ OP

i actually have nothing backwards.
not being "forced" to take as much life nodes as before is a buff.
being able to invest those saved points into damage is a buff.
of course CI builds will be less popular because you are giving up more free life by taking it. (which is actually exactly what i wrote in my first post)

i absolutely fail to understand how you can call saving passive points not a buff. (and a huge one at that)

and as i pointed out in my first post - a buff to life can only go along with a buff to ES.
additionally - a buff to strength can only go along with a buff to int and dex as well.

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GutenTag wrote:

@ OP

i actually have nothing backwards.
not being "forced" to take as much life nodes as before is a buff.
being able to invest those saved points into damage is a buff.

i absolutely fail to understand how you can call saving passive points not a buff. (and a huge one at that)

Getting free passive points while having the same stats as before is a pretty huge buff. But that's not really what's happening here. Right now non-ES builds generally stack every life node they can find. Under my suggestion, to get your life that high, you'd still need to stack every life node you could find. If you're really of the mindset that these things are "forced"... then the whole suggestion is moot, people would stack life nodes both before and after. But I don't believe people are forced; I think they choose to stack life beyond what they need because it's better than investing passives in other nodes.

The point of this suggestion is to reduce the opportunity cost of going off the life node path, thus incentivizing players to seek more non-life nodes... but not to eliminate that opportunity cost. It is not a skill point give-a-way, it's more like a skill point buy-one-get-one-free sale.

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GutenTag wrote:

of course CI builds will be less popular because you are giving up more free life by taking it. (which is actually exactly what i wrote in my first post)

and as i pointed out in my first post - a buff to life can only go along with a buff to ES.
additionally - a buff to strength can only go along with a buff to int and dex as well.

If every balance change to one system requires giving a corresponding change to all other systems, then what's the point? If everything increases by the same amount, none of the relationships actually change, the numbers just get bigger. There's a limit to how many "domino effect" changes should be made when you change something, and I think ES falls on the other side of that line, especially because I can and did list several ways in which ES builds would benefit.

Yes, right now, everyone get's hp nodes, what's the point of a passive tree if all you can get is hp nodes...

You cant just go for crazy amount of dps. Because Reflect will kill you and you have to compensate because of this. And I enjoy it that way. Its not like other games where you cant die to reflect because lifeleech is so big that you just spam 300k crits on a reflect and you are not even in danger to loose hp at all.

Its sometimes frustrating but it keeps the game as a challange. If I want to brainless crush mobs I go to a other game and sell the loot for Money...but its not that enjoyable in the end for me. It is just boring