Nerf life nodes... while boosting base life so life itself isn't nerfed

I looked at this thread before but never seriously tried to work up the math and see what it would do to my own charater.

So I did that just now. As it turns out, under your changes, assuming I have the exact same passive tree as I do now and the exact same gear, I gain a bit of life over what I have now (but it's very close).

I understand the motive is to make it less punishing to drop some life nodes to take other things, such as DPS nodes, and that's a good goal.

But if you look at someone who, with their current build and gear, has 5-6k hp and is running difficult, higher level maps, are they going to want to drop some life nodes to take other nodes, even if life nodes were changed to only be half as effective as they are now? I doubt it, because you can never have enough life. That's why people who stack life nodes often end up getting a Kaom's Heart too. Because even with all those life nodes, they STILL don't have enough life.

So under this system, they would still need just as many life nodes, because you will still need just as much life, and this is a result of the damage dealt by the existing endgame content.

And those people with a Kaom's Heart would receive a much smaller benefit from it than they would previously, which means that those who were relying on it for survivability and tankiness, especially in hardcore... would be very angry, to say the least.

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realatomicpanda wrote:

But if you look at someone who, with their current build and gear, has 5-6k hp and is running difficult, higher level maps, are they going to want to drop some life nodes to take other nodes, even if life nodes were changed to only be half as effective as they are now? I doubt it, because you can never have enough life. That's why people who stack life nodes often end up getting a Kaom's Heart too. Because even with all those life nodes, they STILL don't have enough life.

What you're basically saying here is that your character needs 5-6k hp in order to be effective... which I think is an utter fallacy, and a partial byproduct of the 8% lifenode system.

I'm sure there are people running the same content with 3-4k life. Although they're probably nearer to 4k, some of those are probably melee. So is it really true you can never have enough life?

I think the main drive to surpass these reasonably life levels is that the return on investment is too substantial. To you, 3-4k life don't feel like breakpoints, because they aren't the current breakpoints, it's still more profitable -- not necessary, profitable -- to get life past that amount. This is exactly what my suggestion is attacking.

To see a better implementation of this, please see:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/323220

Instead of all these changes that affect str and item mods, just give a 1% increased life mod to leveling up and make the 8% life nodes 6% instead (10=>8, 12=>9, 13=>10).

Much simpler to implement and it won't make people scrap any characters. Just gives options by decreasing the need for as many life nodes and making them on the same level of other passives.

Unless you have 1/2 as many life nodes as levels, you will see an increase in overall life.

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Dracobane wrote:

To see a better implementation of this, please see:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/323220

Instead of all these changes that affect str and item mods, just give a 1% increased life mod to leveling up and make the 8% life nodes 6% instead (10=>8, 12=>9, 13=>10).

Much simpler to implement and it won't make people scrap any characters. Just gives options by decreasing the need for as many life nodes and making them on the same level of other passives.

Unless you have 1/2 as many life nodes as levels, you will see an increase in overall life.

That is not a horrible solution to the problem. However, it is not strictly superior; it doesn't effectively deal with life affixes. My suggestion limits their potency; under your system, Kaom's Heart is even stronger than it was before (good for both lifestackers and non-lifestackers). This is just one con; my system has cons too (complexity, Strength buff).

I also feel like 6% is too timid, and you should have suggested 4% (with 2% innate per level). 6% probably isn't big enough of a nerf to dissuade players from playing Path of Life Nodes just as they are now.

In all honesty, I think the best solution would be a blend of both: something like 50% more base life instead of doubled (except life affix on gear), 0.75 life per Strength instead of 1.0, 1% life per level, 4% nodes. But that system is so complex it gives players a headache.

After having my thread around for quite some time, I'm really starting to feel ambivalent towards my particular "how." OK, I've got a method, you've got a method, maybe some GGG staffer can think of a third method, and at the end of the day I really don't care how the cat gets skinned. All I want to see is some combination of the following:

• Life node values reduced, preferrably to 4% per node instead of 8%; 6% is still better than no change
• No substantial nerf to overall survivability

The rest is mere details.

your nerfing life by too much scrottie

lets say i have currently 1k base hp and 200% increase that would turn into 3k

if with your changes my life would become 1.5k and id only be left with 100% increase instead still giving me 3k hp in the end nothing changes you still have to take the same amount of life

my personal feeling is that other forms of defense especially armor and evasion need a bigger boost to what they currently do

in the case of evasion lets say i take dodge and phase dodge in all honesty you need another keystone that does something like 30-50% damage reduction even if the dodge fails to make it a remotely popular choice

in the case of armor you need flat amount damage absorbsion vs any type of damage (yes any type) with pretty big decent number

there is no real specialization for evasion and armor just broken ones
life can be specialized in very well very efficiently

once these 2 defenses are boosted your changes would make a lot of sense but before that they wont make a difference.

ahem double sry

internet is weird these days at my place

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I'm sure there are people running the same content with 3-4k life. Although they're probably nearer to 4k, some of those are probably melee. So is it really true you can never have enough life?

I think it is. I'm not sure. Admittedly I don't have a character running high enough and difficult enough maps to speak for experience.

I mean you could totally run story content in 3k hp. No problem. But maps are a different story.

Really high level, 3-4k hp... I think you'd be considered a glass cannon. Even 6k hp can drop fast against something that's really dangerous, and you're talking about running at 50-66% of that.

I was watching a map kripp did recently in a party on his freeze pulser. He's pretty well geared, and has a Kaom's, he's running something like 8500 hp, I think. He ran a map where the boss hit so hard that he lost over 50% hp in one hit. No one could get near. Admittedly those were probably some of the worst mods you could have on a map, but yeah.

I just don't know man. It just seems like the further I get and the higher level I get, the more I feel like, "I NEED MORE LIFE," and I'm running well over 4k already.

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realatomicpanda wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I'm sure there are people running the same content with 3-4k life. Although they're probably nearer to 4k, some of those are probably melee. So is it really true you can never have enough life?

I think it is. I'm not sure. Admittedly I don't have a character running high enough and difficult enough maps to speak for experience.

I mean you could totally run story content in 3k hp. No problem. But maps are a different story.

Really high level, 3-4k hp... I think you'd be considered a glass cannon. Even 6k hp can drop fast against something that's really dangerous, and you're talking about running at 50-66% of that.

I was watching a map kripp did recently in a party on his freeze pulser. He's pretty well geared, and has a Kaom's, he's running something like 8500 hp, I think. He ran a map where the boss hit so hard that he lost over 50% hp in one hit. No one could get near. Admittedly those were probably some of the worst mods you could have on a map, but yeah.

I just don't know man. It just seems like the further I get and the higher level I get, the more I feel like, "I NEED MORE LIFE," and I'm running well over 4k already.

You made me think about map affixes, and you have a good point: there is an affix imbalance that benefits extreme tankiness more than it benefits extreme DPS. There are 14 map affixes by my count that specifically benefit tanky characters, compared to only 7 that specifically benefit damage, 4 of which target specific damage types and therefore are only sometimes relevant. Naturally the best maps use the mods that do neither (just make the map bigger or make more monsters live there), but generally the map's other mods are going to strongly incentivize you to make a tank, not a glass cannon.

I guess part of ending the reign of life nodes is fixing the map affix pool to correct this imbalance; this is something my suggestion completely missed.

we dont need scrubcore suggestions go back to d3 thx