[2.3]FoxTactics Hellfire Arc build [Full conversion fire arc] Vaal righteous fire one shot

If you want more consistency with one shotting bosses i found running multiple VRF's with increased aoe to be quite helpful.

VRF - VRF - increased aoe - fire pen

This 4 link set up has been working for me as I don't find the need to scale the damage of VRF since it can already 1 shot most bosses.Of course its situational for the content you are doing. As seen from Aderp's post above, its a breeze to one shot bosses and he did it without even getting to the burn part of VRF which is actually stronger than the initial hit itself.

I agree this isn;t really a fast uber lab build but its pretty reliable for general map clearing into red maps.

Also grats Aderp on your new stash of exalts!

@Mothren - You have a lot of good info in your post, only part I take issue with is your comparison with blade vortex near the end. I think the way you compared dps between BV and arc was a bit disingenuous. First of all, you compared a calculated dps with a tooltip dps (burn, chain, penetration etc. not accounted for in tooltip obviously). Second, izaro is a very special case that works into the strengths of BV and weaknesses of hellfire arc (no VRF). I'll give you that if your only goal for your char is to kill uber lab, BV would be better suited, but that isn't representative at all with the rest of the game.

Well, the last part was only given to show how superior some builds are.

Even if you account for the chains and shocks and burns which proc unreliably in party play, the dps and the clearspeed of arc + ele conflux cannot even come near some of the t1 builds in current meta. (And I play with 64% lightning penetration).

A blade vortexer, as I said just walks with 6-10 stacks of blades which last 10 seconds, recasts those amounts of blades under 1 second and continues walking at 120% movespeed. Those 10 blades do 100k+ dps, mostly crit due to perma uptime diamond flask which is not considered into the tooltip and mobs are perma-shocked with vinktar, not even mentioning taste of hate additional dps etc.)

Even if you have 27% attack speed on your mace and you shield charge like crazy and fire off 1 arc per pack and let's assume rares die to that 1 arc, arc cannot keep up with that kind of clearspeed.

Plus other downsides I mentioned obviously.

We can't mention every aspect in a short forum post can we :)

I enjoy arc since domination league. I like its animation, one of the best spells in the game in my opinion in terms of that.

Still playing my build, but people should know that it is MUCH inferior to like around 10 other builds available this league. And inferior to around 10-20 more. But that is just because those builds are OP and we here can feel a bit underpowered when the build is actually performing just fine under t15 maps which are not really reliably (deathless) doable for most of the builds.

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Mothren wrote:

Well, the last part was only given to show how superior some builds are.

Even if you account for the chains and shocks and burns which proc unreliably in party play, the dps and the clearspeed of arc + ele conflux cannot even come near some of the t1 builds in current meta. (And I play with 64% lightning penetration).

A blade vortexer, as I said just walks with 6-10 stacks of blades which last 10 seconds, recasts those amounts of blades under 1 second and continues walking at 120% movespeed. Those 10 blades do 100k+ dps, mostly crit due to perma uptime diamond flask which is not considered into the tooltip and mobs are perma-shocked with vinktar, not even mentioning taste of hate additional dps etc.)

Even if you have 27% attack speed on your mace and you shield charge like crazy and fire off 1 arc per pack and let's assume rares die to that 1 arc, arc cannot keep up with that kind of clearspeed.

Plus other downsides I mentioned obviously.

We can't mention every aspect in a short forum post can we :)

I enjoy arc since domination league. I like its animation, one of the best spells in the game in my opinion in terms of that.

Still playing my build, but people should know that it is MUCH inferior to like around 10 other builds available this league. And inferior to around 10-20 more. But that is just because those builds are OP and we here can feel a bit underpowered when the build is actually performing just fine under t15 maps which are not really reliably (deathless) doable for most of the builds.

Well like I just said and I thought it'd be obvious.. cherry picking a rare situation that plays to the strength of one build and the weaknesses of another cannot be generalized to say one build is better than another.

I'd be very surprised if your BV char could keep up with my clear speed.

Edit: thanks bendoverxnao, he hasn't contacted me yet, but I'm sure he will be soon :P

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Aderp wrote:

Well like I just said and I thought it'd be obvious.. cherry picking a rare situation that plays to the strength of one build and the weaknesses of another cannot be generalized to say one build is better than another.

I'd be very surprised if your BV char could keep up with my clear speed.

Oh god...

You keep on feeling superior in your fairytale land mate.
And I thought I was having an honest, true-to-the-facts discussion.

1.) The build is not mine, I played with friends that played blade vortex, mjölner and windripper.

2.) Your build is more than 50 exalts in budget and still you will be beat by the clearspeed of sub 20ex builds like one I created last league: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rth1jIGTWkU.

It is sometimes good to accept the fact that YOUR build is not THE BEST clearspeed build.

Arc, as a caster proliferation mechanic, is limited, compared to some other builds, even if you have the best gear available in PoE.

And that is OK, but it is a fact...

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Mothren wrote:

"

Aderp wrote:

Well like I just said and I thought it'd be obvious.. cherry picking a rare situation that plays to the strength of one build and the weaknesses of another cannot be generalized to say one build is better than another.

I'd be very surprised if your BV char could keep up with my clear speed.

Oh god...

You keep on feeling superior in your fairytale land mate.
And I thought I was having an honest, true-to-the-facts discussion.

1.) The build is not mine, I played with friends that played blade vortex, mjölner and windripper.

2.) Your build is more than 50 exalts in budget and still you will be beat by the clearspeed of sub 20ex builds like one I created last league: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rth1jIGTWkU.

It is sometimes good to accept the fact that YOUR build is not THE BEST clearspeed build.

Arc, as a caster proliferation mechanic, is limited, compared to some other builds, even if you have the best gear available in PoE.

And that is OK, but it is a fact...

No need to get your panties in a bunch. Let's address a couple of your 'points'.

I never claimed my build has 'the best' clear speed. I said I'd be surprised if a BV char could clear faster than me. BV has the potential for huge single target damage, but has a small range.. which puts it at a disadvantage for clearing mobs quickly.

My gear is expensive because high ES gear costs a lot - it certainly isn't necessary to match my es. The damage/clear speed on my build would cost far less to achieve - 6l shav, catalyst, lvl 21 arc, lvl 4 empower are only pieces that cost more than a few c and affect damage), and you don't "need" all of that either. For example, using level 3 empower instead is very cheap, and only drops damage by about 10%.

Anyway, I think you're underestimating arc clear speed. I just ran a quick gorge for funzies, which is by no means the fastest I could do (didn't even bother with VRF, accidentally turned off HoT, etc.) but still was complete in a respectable 1:38. I'd imagine if I did it a few times, I could get the time down to a little under 1:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2tVOGuRs4w&feature=youtu.be

Gz on the run.

It is possible to go under 1:25 with the build I posted, that video was done with level 19 blink arrow, level 19 gems (no quality either) and a total of 15ex gear, at level 91. Did like 6 gorges, didn't try further.

Level 20 and Level 21 arc has 1-2ex price difference.
Level 3 empower and Level 4 empower has a 10 (24 if in standard) ex price difference.
Your 6link shavronne's alone costs 18 EX in temp leagues whereas the build in the video costs less in total.

If you don't have perfect cast speed jewelry, level 20 arc and a 5 link shavs (no empower either) and level 19 support gems, I'm sorry but you would only have around 1/3 to 1/4 of your dps and the total cost of your build would still be around 15EX.

And you still won't be able to clear an elemental status ailment immune maps effectively. Let alone t12+ maps with 1/3 to 1/4 of dps of a level 96 character will be more painful. I am not even counting red maps with "monsters have +80% fire resistance" lowering your clearspeed by 75% since burns cannot penetrate...

This build needs the investment to shine and even then, there are limitations. I doubt a 5link life based Lightning Coil version would even come near the values I described above...

Finally, for the blade vortex, it's aoe, with some of the builds that utilize it, is half the screen (basically envelopes gorge except large canyon sections) and it can clear the same gorge in a 2-man party at the same speed, let alone solo.

Edit: Pointless to keep talking. Here is Fox's own Shipyard T12 map clear with 6link coil, GG jewels, full fire conversion and over 30EX gear.

https://www.twitch.tv/foxtactics/v/58776498

I think 30EX vs this clearspeed is inferior.

Now think about this map with 5link coil, no GG jewels etc. Over and out.

Just my 2 cents but comparing builds based on gorge clear speed time honestly doesn't make for good comparisons. plenty of builds can 1 shot screens with one click and from then on which is also said in this guide its then based on how fast your movement + movement skills are. For example, its like saying look how fast I can move. Can easily make a 10+ frenzy charged Spectral throw with phasing and clear the map in records speed, does that cover the build in all situations and determine its rank on the "TIER" list? i dont think so. The real question should be how does the clear feel

We never said this is the best build, its good for the situations you want it to be as an arc build. We were simply making counterarguments to the people slagging the build saying it is impossible without expensive gear.

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Mothren wrote:

If you don't have perfect cast speed jewelry, level 20 arc and a 5 link shavs (no empower either) and level 19 support gems, I'm sorry but you would only have around 1/3 to 1/4 of your dps and the total cost of your build would still be around 15EX.

I have no cast speed on any of my jewelry, and using level 3 empower (25c on temp leagues) + level 20 arc (5c on prophecy) has about 80% of my dps. Not sure where you're getting 1/3 to 1/4 of my dps from.

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Mothren wrote:

And you still won't be able to clear an elemental status ailment immune maps effectively.

It makes it a little slower, but still easily doable (just like any other map mod that reduces damage.. enfeeble for example).

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Mothren wrote:

I am not even counting red maps with "monsters have +80% fire resistance" lowering your clearspeed by 75% since burns cannot penetrate...

My arc is still lightning (I don't do the fire conversion), so 80% fire resistance isn't that big a deal. Ele weakness also lowers the 80% resistance, and increasing the clear speed by 75% would only be true if you did exactly the mobs hp when you killed it. Obviously that is not the case, as other mods that reduce my damage like enfeeble aren't really noticeable unless several of them stack up in the same map.

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Mothren wrote:

This build needs the investment to shine and even then, there are limitations.

As do all builds?

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Mothren wrote:

Finally, for the blade vortex, it's aoe, with some of the builds that utilize it, is half the screen (basically envelopes gorge except large canyon sections) and it can clear the same gorge in a 2-man party at the same speed, let alone solo.

I'd like to see one clear gorge at the same speed. 2-man doesn't really slow me down either, so that wouldn't impress me.

"

Mothren wrote:

Edit: Pointless to keep talking. Here is Fox's own Shipyard T12 map clear with 6link coil, GG jewels, full fire conversion and over 30EX gear.

https://www.twitch.tv/foxtactics/v/58776498

I think 30EX vs this clearspeed is inferior.

Now think about this map with 5link coil, no GG jewels etc. Over and out.

That obviously isn't a run showing off clear speed.. he's spending half his time looting. Also, the LL version will have much higher arc damage than the life based one. I dunno if I need to prove it to you with another video, but t14+ maps are cake. I clear them at essentially the same rate as gorge or dried lake, there's nothing wrong with arc for clear speed.

I dunno, the last few pages have had a surprising number of posts about what this build supposedly can't do.. first it was one shotting bosses, then having shit clear speed, then requiring a massive investment or unable to do tons of map mods.. it's silly. This build has strengths and weaknesses like any other, and I'd suggest to the people that haven't been able to get it to work the way they want to tinker with it in game rather than try to shit on it unsuccessfully in the forums.

@bendoverxnao and @aderp
I never said this build is unviable or bad or impossible with budget gear. I said it is "less effective" compared to some of the other T1 builds available.

@aderp
The fact that someone else have made BS statements and the fact that my comments came right after that person do not in any fact link these together.

Yes, enfeeble or map mods which reduce damage effect any type of builds, but if a build has 10 times the overkill damage, this does not affect that build.

Talking about:

Proc dischargers (clears just as fast in 6-mans)
LA or KB - GMP - Pierce/Chain type builds (1 click = 2 screens clear)
Blade Vortexers with 200k+ fast mapping physical dps and large AoE

These builds do not get slowed down by map mods.

I know that you are doing arc damage as lightning but your prolif does fire damage and it is a HUGE part of the clearspeed, at least sub 30k arc dps.

The fact that you are level 96 and have insane gear and call T14 maps cake doesn't change the fact that this build is inferior to those builds which also do T14 maps as "cake" with lower levels and lower investment.

I personally am playing the build at the moment and am calling it worse than some other builds. This is not "shitting" on the build, this is criticizing. Plus, I have made it work, but sincerely am not happy that it required 2x the investment of some other builds to shine and is slowed down by "more" map mods than some other builds.

Finally:

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Aderp wrote:

That obviously isn't a run showing off clear speed.. he's spending half his time looting.

Can't you interpret that I ALREADY know that? I clearly didn't mention the minutes it took to clear the map or the looting. It should be obvious that I didn't like the fact that sometimes he arcs a skeleton 3 times or the fact that his general movespeed is only 30% or the fact that some packs take 3 arcs to down when we know Mathil or some other streamer just 1-clicks screens.

Won't write any further comments here, even if you misunderstand me yet again and continue writing invalid claims about what I said.

Edit: Here is a bonus Blade Vortex video from Mathil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDhcXXrA0cE&t=3m55s
Un-finished build, 5link carcass + divinarius (rest of the gear is crap, gems not leveled...)