[2.3]FoxTactics Hellfire Arc build [Full conversion fire arc] Vaal righteous fire one shot

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Tiamay wrote:

Does this build rely on a 6-link? Can this build still do comparable damage with just a 5-link. It is obviously going to be lower with a 5-link. I am just curious if I were to do this build if it is even worth it unless I have the currency for a 6-link LC.

You'd be working with probably 20-25% less damage with a 5L. A lot of people start out with tab rasa, so that is also an option you can consider if damage is lacking on 5L.

Well, CI builds just seem strictly superior...

Another example from today's reddit:
https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Hulio225/characters

Crit Fire Vortex.

At the same lvl as me, both 6L with same links:

- almost 2 times more EHP
- 7 (!!!) times more damage with a shield (I use dual Catalysts)
- 100% ignite chance all the time because crits, shock from Vinktar
- no real disadvantage to speak of other than inability to use life flasks... but this frees up 2 more flask slots

Now I really regret not going with crit assassin...

This build produces higher dmg with Vortex than I with VRF from Hellfire Arc spec...

So far I just respecced some nodes to grab AoE, and use Vortex now.

Arc singletarget is abysmal without adds/worms, but for Vortex you just link Conc and unlike VRF can also spam it.

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so there's no need to have cold to fire gem in the 6L

That is just flat out wrong as CtF gem gives basically 30% more damage, read the actual text on the gem before jumping to conclusions

Played a bit more with Vortex.

I consider it strictly superior spell compared to Arc,
aside from the safety aspect, as Arc can be cast from afar.

Advantages:

- Oneshots most enemies from one cast in a fairly large area.
Arc doesn't do this, even 2 casts from Echo are often not enough to dispatch a pack, plus on large packs of tougher enemies (like blue golems) you need to spam it quite a bit. Clearing would be either the same speed or faster, depending on which enemies you face. Arc can be faster only vs very low enemies which you can kill from one cast with no spell echo.

- Better single hit dmg + burn, better singletarget dmg in default setup.
Much higher singletarget if you replace Increased AoE with Conc.

For comparison:
6L Arc lvl 20, with Echo: single hit 808-12900, average dmg: 6854
6L Vortex lvl 19, no Conc: single hit 6073-13264, average dmg: 9668

Vortex is much more reliable thanks to lower gap between min and max dmg while having even higher max dmg ceiling, so you will have no hits that deal no damage requiring recasting, like you do with Arc.

Disadvantages:

- for optimal operation you need to cast Vortex in the middle of the enemy pack, which can be dangerous depending on enemy types. So Arc is safer in that regard.

@Shajirr - what..?

Comparing tooltips from different skills/builds is meaningless. Also your arc damage is embarrassingly low, one arc can certainly wipe out a pack (or several).

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Aderp wrote:

@Shajirr - what..?

Comparing tooltips from different skills/builds is meaningless. Also your arc damage is embarrassingly low, one arc can certainly wipe out a pack (or several).

I am comparing single hit dmg. And I listed how these skills differ, don't see why it would be hard to comprehend.

Also, you didn't forget that you basically play completely different build on standard?
You have LL, can run both Wrath and HoT at the same time, and have better jewels.
Probably more base dmg too since LL doesn't need nearly as many ES nodes on the tree as life.
You have much higher dmg, therefore the map threshold where a single Arc can kill a mob is much higher for you.

The version I run is nearly the same as FoxTactics outlined, in terms of expected dmg.

The dmg I listed is at lvl 90 char, in 6L, with more dmg nodes than OP, using dual Catalysts.
The only thing missing is 3-4 mod jewels, which would be impossible for me to get.
With really good jewels the total dmg will maybe raise by 10-15%

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Shajirr wrote:

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Aderp wrote:

@Shajirr - what..?

Comparing tooltips from different skills/builds is meaningless. Also your arc damage is embarrassingly low, one arc can certainly wipe out a pack (or several).

I am comparing single hit dmg. And I listed how these skills differ, don't see why it would be hard to comprehend.

Also, you didn't forget that you basically play completely different build on standard?
You have LL, can run both Wrath and HoT at the same time, and have better jewels.
Probably more base dmg too since LL doesn't need nearly as many ES nodes on the tree as life.
You have much higher dmg, therefore the map threshold where a single Arc can kill a mob is much higher for you.

The version I run is nearly the same as FoxTactics outlined, in terms of expected dmg.

The dmg I listed is at lvl 90 char, in 6L, with more dmg nodes than OP, using dual Catalysts.
The only thing missing is 3-4 mod jewels, which would be impossible for me to get.
With really good jewels the total dmg will maybe raise by 10-15%

You are comparing two skills that are nothing alike. And of course vortex has higher single target damage - it better since it is basically a melee range skill. If ranged skills had the same damage as close range skills, there would be no reason to play anything other than ranged. What you gain in base damage is offset by trees/gear needing to be more focused on survival (since you're more in the fray) and time lost chasing down straggling mobs.

Also the reason I have more damage nodes on tree is because the LL tree is more efficient (less pathing), we actually spend similar numbers of points on life/es nodes (fox:37, me:35). Instead of hating on arc, maybe try adjusting your build. The vortex build you linked is crit based, which almost always have higher tooltips. Heck I swapped in arc for my GC assassin for funzies, and tooltip hit over 200k with charges/vaal haste. It's not hard at all to make a solid arc build, it's a very good spell.

I'm using it, 84 right now, seems really good, and watching the packs die to prolif is fun as balls in this build, I'm seriously struggling at single target though, I've been using V Flameblast, because VRF seems really scary for me in PHC, I don't know how could I improve that aspect yet.

This build requires a 6L Lightning Coil, and almost all gems to be lvl 21 or Q23. You need a Call, a Catalyst, and 4-prop jewels with 3 synergistic mods.

It deals litterally zero dmg until these conditions are met.

Vortex as a Shadow assassin is simply superior.

This is not what you build first in a league, and is most likely not for a temp league period.

Standard, where you have access to all this stuff sure.

In a temp league, or as a new player, Vortex deals wayyyyy more dmg.

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Orca_Orcinus wrote:

This build requires a 6L Lightning Coil, and almost all gems to be lvl 21 or Q23. You need a Call, a Catalyst, and 4-prop jewels with 3 synergistic mods.

It deals litterally zero dmg until these conditions are met.

Vortex as a Shadow assassin is simply superior.

This is not what you build first in a league, and is most likely not for a temp league period.

Standard, where you have access to all this stuff sure.

In a temp league, or as a new player, Vortex deals wayyyyy more dmg.

You certainly packed quite a few ridiculous claims into a short post, I'd love to see you take a whack at trying to defend them.

1. This build requires almost all gems to be lvl 21 or Q23
2. This build requires 4-prop jewels with 3 synergistic mods
3. It deals litterally zero dmg until these conditions are met.
4. Vortex as a Shadow assassin is simply superior.
5. This build is most likely not for a temp league period.
6. Vortex deals wayyyyy more dmg. - (this one is a half truth, but I'd love to see how you'd try to defend it anyway)

This should be fun.

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Orca_Orcinus wrote:

This build requires a 6L Lightning Coil, and almost all gems to be lvl 21 or Q23. You need a Call, a Catalyst, and 4-prop jewels with 3 synergistic mods.

It deals litterally zero dmg until these conditions are met.

Vortex as a Shadow assassin is simply superior.

This is not what you build first in a league, and is most likely not for a temp league period.

Standard, where you have access to all this stuff sure.

In a temp league, or as a new player, Vortex deals wayyyyy more dmg.

I don't have a LC just a random armour 6l.
I don't have max lvl gems, let alone corrupted yet.

"It deals litterally zero dmg until these conditions are met."
Literally a lie.

Im wrecking content, it's really powerfull. I have played vortex ass and yes, its more tooltip dps, but thats just E-peen size, I just care how fast I clear, and this build is all up that clearspeed. Also vortex makes you almost melee, and I'm playing in HC so, fuck that noice.

The only real downside to this build so far as I can see (lvl 86 clearing up to t11) is that you need more mobs to effectively kill bosses, I don't dare still to use 3 writhing jars, I just use 1 and swap to 2 for some bosses. I don't doubt that in softcore this oneshot every boss, it's just that in HC I can't afford to try and maybe fail :P

Please don't mislead people.