Criticism and 5 Suggestions on the Economy/Vendor system post 0.9.5 playtesting

The amount of shards required per recipe would have to be balanced, no doubt. But as it stands now, I'd rather have a system in which everyone can participate with minimal frustration and time consumption verses your solution. If the answer is NOT to hoard items for recipes because they're difficult to get, what's the point in having a system like this in the first place?!

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Rippster wrote:

If the answer is NOT to hoard items for recipes because they're difficult to get, what's the point in having a system like this in the first place?!

I've answered this numerous times. Why remove something with potential just because it's difficult or rare to achieve? Imagine they removed the name-matching recipes. You then find 2 rares with the same name. Oh damn! If only there were a reward for finding such a rare match! Oops, we removed that because it was rare.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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Rippster wrote:

If the answer is NOT to hoard items for recipes because they're difficult to get, what's the point in having a system like this in the first place?!

I've answered this numerous times. Why remove something with potential just because it's difficult or rare to achieve? Imagine they removed the name-matching recipes. You then find 2 rares with the same name. Oh damn! If only there were a reward for finding such a rare match! Oops, we removed that because it was rare.

The potential of this system is to create frustration through item-hoarding and over-management. My question to you is, why keep a system like that instead of trying to improve it? If we're going to call a system that should probably be "ignored" a system that has "potential" but we should just leave it alone as-is, then what's the point?

"Yeah, the system really is kinda meh and should probably be ignored but let's just keep it for the sake of keeping it because it has potential."

What?

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Rippster wrote:

The potential of this system is to create frustration through item-hoarding and over-management. My question to you is, why keep a system like that instead of trying to improve it? If we're going to call a system that should probably be "ignored" a system that has "potential" but we should just leave it alone as-is, then what's the point?

"Yeah, the system really is kinda meh and should probably be ignored but let's just keep it for the sake of keeping it because it has potential."

What?

I never said it doesn't need improvements. I'm just saying the foundation of the system works as intended, and it's a good system.

When I used the word "potential," I was referring to the potential of completing a rare recipe. I wasn't referring to the system as a whole, just those individual recipes.

I don't know how to explain it any better than I have already, across 3 different threads. If you can't grasp the intent of the system, I'm sorry, and I'm sorry I can't help you understand it better. I tried. You just seem to be adamant that the current system is terrible and doesn't work at all, with the primary reason being that collecting all the shit that drops doesn't give you lots of orbs. Well, it shouldn't.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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Rippster wrote:

The potential of this system is to create frustration through item-hoarding and over-management. My question to you is, why keep a system like that instead of trying to improve it? If we're going to call a system that should probably be "ignored" a system that has "potential" but we should just leave it alone as-is, then what's the point?

"Yeah, the system really is kinda meh and should probably be ignored but let's just keep it for the sake of keeping it because it has potential."

What?

I never said it doesn't need improvements. I'm just saying the foundation of the system works as intended, and it's a good system.

When I used the word "potential," I was referring to the potential of completing a rare recipe. I wasn't referring to the system as a whole, just those individual recipes.

I don't know how to explain it any better than I have already, across 3 different threads. If you can't grasp the intent of the system, I'm sorry, and I'm sorry I can't help you understand it better. I tried. You just seem to be adamant that the current system is terrible and doesn't work at all, with the primary reason being that collecting all the shit that drops doesn't give you lots of orbs. Well, it shouldn't.

This system can work but it must be tweaked. Get rid of the micro-managing and hoarding aspects to it and it will work. As it stands now, the system is just a nuisance that very few will use outside of multi-account farmers. I don't mind recipes but I do mind extensive hoarding in hopes of one day finding the other pieces. I see no fun in that.

Im sure they will change a lot of things.

Since there has been a poll about users willingness to pay cash for more room in stash, i really doubt they will give away options for storage for free.

Btw. Paying cash for stash is by far NOT cosmetic in my eyes. Storage is a VERY important gameplay affecting subject. Please GGG. Don't do that. Would not fit the idea of "purchasable perks do not convey any gameplay benefit" at all.

Sorry for being offtopic. To get back to topic: I like the idea of ingame items dealing with storage options. But as i said, i highly doubt such a thing will come...but i still have faith in the devs. Hopefully they will overthink the idea of adding stash by real money microtransactions.

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BrotherLaz wrote:

There is no reason why the inventory can't just be a list, like in Skyrim. Hell, add a weight rating so you can't stock up so many items you don't want to go through them and sell them all.

QFT! A weight-based inventory was one of the things I absolutely LOVED about Ragnarok Online. You never had to worry about one bauble using an inventory slot that could hold a thousand baubles, all you had to care about was how much the bauble weighed, which was next to nothing. I really think they had the best inventory system out of any game I've ever played.

And it doesn't need to be a list. Just keep it a grid with icons, just add a scroll bar to the inventory.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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Rippster wrote:

The potential of this system is to create frustration through item-hoarding and over-management. My question to you is, why keep a system like that instead of trying to improve it? If we're going to call a system that should probably be "ignored" a system that has "potential" but we should just leave it alone as-is, then what's the point?

"Yeah, the system really is kinda meh and should probably be ignored but let's just keep it for the sake of keeping it because it has potential."

What?

I never said it doesn't need improvements. I'm just saying the foundation of the system works as intended, and it's a good system.

When I used the word "potential," I was referring to the potential of completing a rare recipe. I wasn't referring to the system as a whole, just those individual recipes.

I don't know how to explain it any better than I have already, across 3 different threads. If you can't grasp the intent of the system, I'm sorry, and I'm sorry I can't help you understand it better. I tried. You just seem to be adamant that the current system is terrible and doesn't work at all, with the primary reason being that collecting all the shit that drops doesn't give you lots of orbs. Well, it shouldn't.

You're totally missing the point. Collecting all the shit that drops DOES give you lots of orbs if you automate the process of managing and categorizing stuff, which some people have already been working on. Do you really want those kinds of third-party tools to become mandatory? Does that really make the game more fun?

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Strill wrote:

You're totally missing the point. Collecting all the shit that drops DOES give you lots of orbs if you automate the process of managing and categorizing stuff, which some people have already been working on. Do you really want those kinds of third-party tools to become mandatory? Does that really make the game more fun?

I suppose I did miss that point, because it was never brought up until now. That sounds like an attempt to grasp a reason out of the air. Automation... Really? People will bot whatever they want within the limits of their abilities. Having a system that benefits from automation isn't a fault, and 3rd-party tools aren't mandatory in any game. That's a terrible misuse of that word. The entire game would benefit from automation in the form of farming/grinding bot scripts. Does that mean the game is inherently faulty, and those bots would become mandatory?

The chances of GGG completely changing the inventory system this late into the game's development are probably very low. There would have to be extremely good reasons why this system doesn't work -- at all -- and extremely good benefits to another system, be it list or single-space or whatever. Right now, the only reasons we have are simply to alleviate intentional restrictions of the current system like space limitation and item shuffling.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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Strill wrote:

You're totally missing the point. Collecting all the shit that drops DOES give you lots of orbs if you automate the process of managing and categorizing stuff, which some people have already been working on. Do you really want those kinds of third-party tools to become mandatory? Does that really make the game more fun?

I suppose I did miss that point, because it was never brought up until now.

It's in the OP.

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That sounds like an attempt to grasp a reason out of the air. Automation... Really? People will bot whatever they want within the limits of their abilities. Having a system that benefits from automation isn't a fault, and 3rd-party tools aren't mandatory in any game. That's a terrible misuse of that word. The entire game would benefit from automation in the form of farming/grinding bot scripts. Does that mean the game is inherently faulty, and those bots would become mandatory?

The chances of GGG completely changing the inventory system this late into the game's development are probably very low. There would have to be extremely good reasons why this system doesn't work -- at all -- and extremely good benefits to another system, be it list or single-space or whatever. Right now, the only reasons we have are simply to alleviate intentional restrictions of the current system like space limitation and item shuffling.

I didn't say bot, I said automate categorizing and managing. You can certainly write a program to track your inventory without it being a bot.