[2.4 Trickster] Grocery's Caustic Arrow Trickster Shadow! HC Viable!

+1 response for previous post :D

Could you by chance see my message a few messages above about gem preferences Grocery? ty :)

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caliark wrote:

+1 response for previous post :D

Could you by chance see my message a few messages above about gem preferences Grocery? ty :)

Can you clarify the question so I can help out?


You aren't using Conc Effect so it will be a big dps loss (but an aoe gain), which is usually always the first link. Looks like you are MFing.

Hi,

I would like clear understand what is better for Caustic Arrow link Slower Projectile (SP) or Physical Projectile Attack Damage (PPAD).

Both of them deal more damage... The difference only in definitions: "x% more Projectile Damage" in 1st case and "x% more Physical Projectile Attack Damage" in another one. What the hell is it?

Now I`m leveling with this bow and Drillneck.

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From tree, quiver, pierce gem (19 lvl) and jewel I have 98% chance to arrow pierce so my damage is doubled from Drillneck.

Should a better way to swap PPAD to SP?

PS. The 6th will be empower and +3 bow and increased DoT from Leo.

To my understanding, SP should be better, because it increases the whole damage of the projectile, icluding the cloud damage (which is your main damage). PPAD just increases the physical part of the hit and the chaos part of the hit but not the cloud.
So SP should be far superior. Maybe not DPS wise, but that doesn't count anyway for CA.

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RaxerX wrote:

To my understanding, SP should be better, because it increases the whole damage of the projectile, icluding the cloud damage (which is your main damage). PPAD just increases the physical part of the hit and the chaos part of the hit but not the cloud.
So SP should be far superior. Maybe not DPS wise, but that doesn't count anyway for CA.

Correct, do not use PPAD with CA!

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Grocery wrote:

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muir wrote:

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Grocery wrote:

Armour still suffers from the fact that it does not reduce as much vs big 1 shots. All I personally care about is 1 shots. EVA + Coil is the best for escaping 1 shots imo. I feel that the smaller quicker stuff you should not be dying to as you will be moving, so you should never be getting hit that many times.

Hyrri's + Armour is not bad and it is a good cheap option. Armour is good for smaller, quicker shots.

I think we are on the same page. You care more about smaller hits, I care more about larger hits.

People keep repeating this as some kind of axiom, however this is actually quite incorrect.

Having Enfeeble (I use blasphemy) and 22k armour offers greater mitigation than Enfeeble and LCoil up to approx 8000 of physical damage.

Source:

https://jsfiddle.net/1qpx41wm/4/embedded/result/

http://i.imgur.com/aDobm7s.png vs http://i.imgur.com/1G03VZJ.png

If you sit down for a minute with poedb and try to find the physical damage skills used by monsters that exceed this value, you will find there are exactly zero.

So the very argument lcoil proponents are so fond of is actually bunk. It requires you to factor in both evasion and dodge on top of coil to demonstrate better "EHP" over time, which inflects at around 2k physical attack damage.

Of course there are many more damage types in the game than physical, and non attacks vectors as well, which is where coil offers nothing of benefit in contrast with Hyrri's.

The numbers speak for themselves when looking at the physical damage levels of even hard rolled 82s. For instance, an average monster's physical damage on an extra damage map with crit multi, on a crit, would be approx 2k. Enfeeble + 22k armour mitigates this to 544 damage, whereas Enfeeble + Lightning coil mitigates this to 1043 with topaz flask up. Adding Endurance charges makes this difference even greater.

The mindless belief in lightning coil as a panacea for physical damage is truly overblown at this point.

Why would you use blasphemy on a Caustic Arrow character? You should not be close to mobs, ever, so it is a moot point. It is a giant waste of mana for something that will rarely be useful.

The argument of other damage is not a factor I am concerned with. Evasion is weak against physical damage. Phys Damage is the biggest issue with evasion. Hence why Coil is the go-to. I would guess that most evasion characters die from physical and not other sources and judging by the response from when Ondar's got nerfed, it was pretty obvious that it was the truth.

Now you are talking about endurance charges as well? This has nothing do to do with this build.

Endurance charges + Enfeeble + Blasphemy on a caustic arrow character is so far different from this build I am not even sure why we are talking about this.

How are you generating these charges?
How are you making blasphemy useful?
CA is good because you don't get near mobs and don't have to stand still.

Are there situations where coil is worse? Sure. But for a evasion based caustic arrow build? I'd say no.

For the sake of helping out others newer to the game not having a clue what this disagreement is about, I'd take Grocery's side on this argument. muir is trying to make the case that Hyrri's gives more defense than Lightning Coil. While it may be true that Hyrri's mitigates more damage on average compared to Lightning Coil, it WILL occassionally let that one giant hit through that will kill you.

muir is making the point that Hyrri's mitigates more damage on average than Lightning Coil. This can be true if you're close to capping dodge.

Grocery is making the point that you will die less with Coil than with Hyrri's. This is also true.

If you prioritize taking less damage that will probably not kill you anyway, go with Hyrri's.
If you prioritize not getting one shot all the time, go with Lightning Coil.

There's a reason that Coil is far more expensive than Hyrri's: it is superior. The fact that Hyrri's also provides NO hp to your base hp doesn't help its case vs one shots. Rangers already struggle with low hp pools, Hyrri's doesn't help. In this case, Kaom's heart and Belly of the Beast are already better options than Hyrri's Ire.

*Side note: if you run Vaal Grace with Acro/Phase Acro, you already hit dodge caps without Hyrri's Ire, meaning that you're getting absolutely nothing out of this chest but high evasion when you Vaal Grace*

Need a little bit of help here. New to the game, and have levelled to 80 following this guide (THANKS! :-)

I dont quite understand what to focus on gearwise - right now I feel like a glass-cannon. I have good dps and as long as I am quick on my feet, I stay alive.


I differ a little bit from the guide, by using a totem with Wither, so I drop totem, use frenzy to curse with vulnerbility and then use caustic arrow (and then everything is dead).

What should I focus on, to improve my gear? 6 Socket in bow and 6 socket chest with better stats is obvious, but apart from that?

The reason you are glass caonnon is tabula rasa, low resistances and low base life. Focus on getting +1/+2 bow (5,5ex 6links cheapest i have seen), then switch tabula to other armor that provides armor or evasion or buy lighting coil (~1ex 5links). To earn exalts i did vorici missions (buying fusings for jewlers everyday (you will get jewlers from 6sockets armors that drops quite often)). Get more resistance and life on rings, change boots for tri res and life. Change quiver to rare with res and life or drillneck. You can easly get belt with +100 life with res for 1c. On technical side reduced mana doesnt work with auras, switch it for enlighten. You dont do crits, so you dont need ice golem, switch it for its fire version. Switch haste to grace. Read the guide again.

I'm sorry for mistakes, Eanglish is not my native language.

Thank you for the reply - english is not my first language either, so dont worry - appriciate you take your time to help :-)

If I get a 6 socket bow with +2/+1 to skill gems, is base damage irrelevant? Right now my dps buffed with caustic arrow is almost 4k/sec, my damage will be much lower with another bow?

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ilder wrote:

Thank you for the reply - english is not my first language either, so dont worry - appriciate you take your time to help :-)

If I get a 6 socket bow with +2/+1 to skill gems, is base damage irrelevant? Right now my dps buffed with caustic arrow is almost 4k/sec, my damage will be much lower with another bow?

Base damage is not important. Important is +2/+1 and high damage over time. I have 22k/sec with this gear having lvl 93 at the moment:



I'm using one jewel in the tree like this: which gives even more damage. Important is also to have quality gems (check my gear).

The problem why you're glass cannon was explained already in previous post. What I can say about myself is that with Lightning Coil + Taste of Hate I'm almost not dying. Last three deaths were actually because I was simply drunk ;) (too much beer + PoE is not a good idea, you know :P ). I have 5.2k life, 36k evasion when running flask and 7 charges. Highest map I did so far on Talisman was Tier14. My additional advice is: get as much Evasion as you can on gear.