When I tested (using cyclone) with L1 gems I couldn't notice a big difference between firestorm vs freeze pulse+EE vs merci voll. Firestorm was noticeably laggier.
I'm impressed that there's a firestorm calculator that takes in radius into account. So firestorm hits 4x, which means it basically does the same base damage as freeze pulse.
I put together A calculator to help you see the # of charges you actually have with firestorm. For example changing from a 1 hit per cast spell (freeze pulse) it seems that I only gain 1.2 extra total EC+PC by changing to firestorm. So it's not actually as big of a boost as you'd initially think.
Feel free to check out the source code, it should be fairly easy to understand. All my builds /view-thread/1430399
T14 'real' clearspeed challenge /1642265
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Posted byMatrixFactor#3574on Oct 25, 2015, 8:30:31 PM
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MatrixFactor wrote:
When I tested (using cyclone) with L1 gems I couldn't notice a big difference between firestorm vs freeze pulse+EE vs merci voll. Firestorm was noticeably laggier.
I'm impressed that there's a firestorm calculator that takes in radius into account. So firestorm hits 4x, which means it basically does the same base damage as freeze pulse.
I put together A calculator to help you see the # of charges you actually have with firestorm. For example changing from a 1 hit per cast spell (freeze pulse) it seems that I only gain 1.2 extra total EC+PC by changing to firestorm. So it's not actually as big of a boost as you'd initially think.
Feel free to check out the source code, it should be fairly easy to understand.
Thanks for that, I did my own calculations and I highly doubt they are wrong. You should check them out as I did include them in the build - and they are comprehensive - you must remember that context is everything.
You also still seem to be missing the point that the uneven attack sequence of Barrage gives time for power charges to build up inbetween Critical Strike Chance rolls - this could not happen with Freezing Pulse, only multi-hit spells would continue building power charges while Barrage is in its 'cooldown' period. Without Firestorm and without Barrage I don't get the benefit of max power charges every attack crit roll.
Again all mathematically laid out in my build.
Finally you need to remember that my Firestorm will be rolling it's crit roll after the barrage hit grants it's (average) 1.3 power charges before Discharge and also after the other Firestorms active have generated their 2 power charges meaning I'll have (on average) 3.3 power charges active every time Firestorm rolls for crit which is 52.5% crit chance. This is before Discharge crits and generated charges are taken into account and this is already higher than I took it to be in my build Calculation so my numbers are actually significantly deflated.
Go figure.
Last edited by Doombug5000#6826 on Oct 25, 2015, 8:57:16 PM
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Posted byDoombug5000#6826on Oct 25, 2015, 8:45:52 PM
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Doombug5000 wrote:
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MatrixFactor wrote:
When I tested (using cyclone) with L1 gems I couldn't notice a big difference between firestorm vs freeze pulse+EE vs merci voll. Firestorm was noticeably laggier.
I'm impressed that there's a firestorm calculator that takes in radius into account. So firestorm hits 4x, which means it basically does the same base damage as freeze pulse.
I put together A calculator to help you see the # of charges you actually have with firestorm. For example changing from a 1 hit per cast spell (freeze pulse) it seems that I only gain 1.2 extra total EC+PC by changing to firestorm. So it's not actually as big of a boost as you'd initially think.
Feel free to check out the source code, it should be fairly easy to understand.
Thanks for that, I did my own calculations and I highly doubt they are wrong. You should check them out as I did include them in the build - and they are comprehensive - you must remember that context is everything.
You also still seem to be missing the point that the uneven attack sequence of Barrage gives time for power charges to build up inbetween Critical Strike Chance rolls - this could not happen with Freezing Pulse, only multi-hit spells would continue building power charges while Barrage is in its 'cooldown' period. Without Firestorm and without Barrage I don't get the benefit of max power charges every attack crit roll.
Again all mathematically laid out in my build.
Finally you need to remember that my Firestorm will be rolling it's crit roll after the barrage hit grants it's (average) 1.3 power charges before Discharge and also after the other Firestorms active have generated their 2 power charges meaning I'll have (on average) 3.3 power charges active every time Firestorm rolls for crit which is 52.5% crit chance. This is before Discharge crits and generated charges are taken into account and this is already higher than I took it to be in my build Calculation so my numbers are actually significantly deflated.
Go figure.
The goal of this exercise (for me) is to determine #ECs & #PCs generated by using firestorm instead of freezepulse, to answer the question of firestorm or elemental equilibrium.
Your calculations ignore fundamental limiting factors like that if you're at 4PC and have max 5PC, there's no difference in gaining 4PC or 1PC. If on average you're in situations like this, it would be better to use EE than firestorm. These things matter, and that's why I put together a simulator that considers the order of events.
If you're so confident about your calculations I'd assume you have some training in math, so you should be able to modify/use the simulator to suit your needs.
All my builds /view-thread/1430399
T14 'real' clearspeed challenge /1642265
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Posted byMatrixFactor#3574on Oct 25, 2015, 9:17:22 PM
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MatrixFactor wrote:
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Doombug5000 wrote:
"
MatrixFactor wrote:
When I tested (using cyclone) with L1 gems I couldn't notice a big difference between firestorm vs freeze pulse+EE vs merci voll. Firestorm was noticeably laggier.
I'm impressed that there's a firestorm calculator that takes in radius into account. So firestorm hits 4x, which means it basically does the same base damage as freeze pulse.
I put together A calculator to help you see the # of charges you actually have with firestorm. For example changing from a 1 hit per cast spell (freeze pulse) it seems that I only gain 1.2 extra total EC+PC by changing to firestorm. So it's not actually as big of a boost as you'd initially think.
Feel free to check out the source code, it should be fairly easy to understand.
Thanks for that, I did my own calculations and I highly doubt they are wrong. You should check them out as I did include them in the build - and they are comprehensive - you must remember that context is everything.
You also still seem to be missing the point that the uneven attack sequence of Barrage gives time for power charges to build up inbetween Critical Strike Chance rolls - this could not happen with Freezing Pulse, only multi-hit spells would continue building power charges while Barrage is in its 'cooldown' period. Without Firestorm and without Barrage I don't get the benefit of max power charges every attack crit roll.
Again all mathematically laid out in my build.
Finally you need to remember that my Firestorm will be rolling it's crit roll after the barrage hit grants it's (average) 1.3 power charges before Discharge and also after the other Firestorms active have generated their 2 power charges meaning I'll have (on average) 3.3 power charges active every time Firestorm rolls for crit which is 52.5% crit chance. This is before Discharge crits and generated charges are taken into account and this is already higher than I took it to be in my build Calculation so my numbers are actually significantly deflated.
Go figure.
The goal of this exercise (for me) is to determine #ECs & #PCs generated by using firestorm instead of freezepulse, to answer the question of firestorm or elemental equilibrium.
Your calculations ignore fundamental limiting factors like that if you're at 4PC and have max 5PC, there's no difference in gaining 4PC or 1PC. If on average you're in situations like this, it would be better to use EE than firestorm. These things matter, and that's why I put together a simulator that considers the order of events.
If you're so confident about your calculations I'd assume you have some training in math, so you should be able to modify/use the simulator to suit your needs.
Well I'm actually just making a google spreadsheet to demonstrate - and yes I read Physics at Sussex University and in my chosen Career I do use math regularly.
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Posted byDoombug5000#6826on Oct 26, 2015, 12:07:54 AM
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Doombug5000 wrote:
Well I'm actually just making a google spreadsheet to demonstrate - and yes I read Physics at Sussex University and in my chosen Career I do use math regularly.
I tried to do the expected EC/PC calculations in google sheets, and it was much more messy than doing a simulation. Even without a firestorm performing multiple hits per cast.
But regardless rest assured you have at least one person curious to see what you come up with. :)
All my builds /view-thread/1430399
T14 'real' clearspeed challenge /1642265
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Posted byMatrixFactor#3574on Oct 26, 2015, 12:16:34 AM
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MatrixFactor wrote:
"
Doombug5000 wrote:
Well I'm actually just making a google spreadsheet to demonstrate - and yes I read Physics at Sussex University and in my chosen Career I do use math regularly.
I tried to do the expected EC/PC calculations in google sheets, and it was much more messy than doing a simulation. Even without a firestorm performing multiple hits per cast.
But regardless rest assured you have at least one person curious to see what you come up with. :)
Okay well I used Google Sheets to create a simulation =p
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cFfgTX1GH4sE58rxKfN2G2UlDMF_4eTw1BfXf7a1B4w/edit?usp=sharing
The first 20 seconds is simulated, you can see them in all their detail - I found that manually telling a 'barrage group' to not Critically Strike was far more revealing than factoring in the Crit chance as an average so there are little green bars down the left hand side that you can change to a 1 if you want a barrage group (of 8 shots) to not crit.
The rest should be pretty self explanatory.
Last edited by Doombug5000#6826 on Oct 26, 2015, 1:31:02 AM
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Posted byDoombug5000#6826on Oct 26, 2015, 1:30:50 AM
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Is your gear and gem levels up to date as posted? I see that you have some very different level skill gems here and there, even in your armour.
I put this build together today myself to try it out. The explosions are rather spectacular, aren't they.. my eyes are still burning..heheheh.
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Posted byRayzabladez#6449on Oct 26, 2015, 3:45:56 AM
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Rayzabladez wrote:
Is your gear and gem levels up to date as posted? I see that you have some very different level skill gems here and there, even in your armour.
I put this build together today myself to try it out. The explosions are rather spectacular, aren't they.. my eyes are still burning..heheheh.
Yeah so... odd story... I took out my 15%q level 20 Discharge to quality it up to 20% and, without thinking, I clicked a stack of Q gems from my stash into my inventory, I then CTRL clicked them to vendor and hit sell...
As you have probably guessed by now my level 20 Discharge was among them.
As such I was like 'SCREW IT' so I vendor recipe'd all my level 20 gems for 20%q gems.
The 1 month leagues are pretty dead, especially in high end trade as all the top players stopped after hitting 85 or w/e it was they wanted to achieve in the league.
I'm still around simply because I wanted to finish this build guide with at least a month before the new challenge leagues and possible passive skill tree changes.
Glad to see you enjoying it though =)
Last edited by Doombug5000#6826 on Oct 26, 2015, 2:45:48 PM
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Posted byDoombug5000#6826on Oct 26, 2015, 2:45:18 PM
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Just as an update to everyone I've changed my recommendation for support spells to: Ball Lightning as your main and switching to Firestorm for prolonged fights/large enemies (Like Malachai or High Templar Voll).
Also I added a crazy build idea to my 'Why Firestorm/Ball Lightning and why Barrage?' section to do with the use of a 6 link Whispering Ice staff allowing a Firestorm in supporting Discharge but with the advantage of permanent Elemental Equilibrium (you should never get 2 Discharges in a row without ice damage thanks to the constant hits from Icestorm). Last edited by Doombug5000#6826 on Oct 27, 2015, 4:56:56 PM
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Posted byDoombug5000#6826on Oct 27, 2015, 4:56:25 PM
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I must say that the new format of the guide is very pleasant and that it's very easy to read now, thanks :)
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Posted byVadler#7524on Oct 27, 2015, 6:57:07 PM
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