Ice Nova

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soul4hdwn wrote:

its not "that" slow and you can still use fast cast passives. the AoE is already largest there is, just a 30% (wiki is behind) boost to AoE size means you can stay pretty far away or hit many foes at once. 40% + 20% quality from long time ago + 20% from dw'ing divinarus daggers (also long time ago) covered the screen top and bottom.

The AoE aspect is all well and good, but hitting 10+ enemies for minimal damage at a very slow rate still isn't very effective compared to other options. The skill itself can be used, it's simply not going to be as effective in terms of efficiency, at least not any way that I can see it.

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Vipermagi wrote:

Not everything can be the most effective/efficient. One skill is going to be better than the other. Ice Nova deals low-end damage because it can hit a LOT of targets, and it has built-in crowd control. This means it's entirely useless against bosses, and most effective against enormous packs.

Its damage isn't even that bad. At level 15, Ice Spear deals 91-136 damage, Ice Nova, 74-116. Ice Nova requires basically no positioning to hit multiple targets, and has a much larger coverage. Ice Spear gets the huge crit chance after transforming, but without supports that's on one target. IN will win against packs, IS versus bosses and Rares. Using both in one build means you're pretty much set.

Ice Nova is less desirable mostly because supports offer so much versatility to Ice Spear that it becomes efficient at dispatching crowds as well as Rares. Don't really see that as a problem, personally; it offers choice.

I don't expect everything to be "most" efficient (that's obviously not a possibility and doesn't make sense anyway), but I would expect things be on par with each other at least. As it stands, Ice Nova (and a few others) are completely outclassed (especially by Freezing Pulse). For example, there is no reason to ever use Ice Nova as a main skill when you could use Freezing Pulse unless your character has -90% movespeed and cannot effectively position himself which is a preposterous (not to mention currently impossible, I think) scenario.

As for IN being a dedicated pack-clearing skill and essentially useless for single target: almost if not every other AoE spell in the game functions as both to an extent. Firestorm, Spark, any projectile spell (Fireball, Ice Spear), Freezing Pulse, etc...

Though Ice Spear and Ice Nova have similar damage values, Ice Spear has a significantly higher critical chance (even at close range) AND a faster casting speed. As you said yourself, it can even be used as a very effective AoE tool due to support gems.


The way I see it, you can design a build around almost any single spell and the build will be at least somewhat effective. If you choose to use Ice Nova, you MUST use another skill for higher HP mobs (because Ice Nova has terrible DPS values, which is the original point in my post). The problem is, if you choose to introduce a new spell to your build, chances are that spell is going to be more effective at AoE clearing too. Back to the Freezing Pulse examples, once I add that to the build, when would I ever need to use Ice Nova?

This isn't a personal vendetta against the skill. Like I said, it's my favorite skill in the game. I've tried long and hard to make an Ice Nova-centric build, but it always pales in comparison to other spells. PoE, at its core, is a numbers game. And unfortunately, Ice Nova's numbers just don't hold up to the other spells.

There is one overwhelming reason forced me to use Ice Nova. You don't need to aim, you don't need to detect enemies in dark corners, you just press right mouse button. Playing my Nova-Templar is so relaxing compared to other builds.

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LOM wrote:

There is one overwhelming reason forced me to use Ice Nova. You don't need to aim, you don't need to detect enemies in dark corners, you just press right mouse button. Playing my Nova-Templar is so relaxing compared to other builds.

complete opposite for me. Iv been playing about with all the ice spells again recently and the inbalance is staggering. Freezing pulse crushes everything, ice spear with gmp is THE form of crowd control because it crits a lot and can freeze often.

Problem with ice nova is it doesnt hurt anything, i mean it literally tickles white mobs. Secondly the range, generally you are fighting "on a front" most of the time. Half of the area covered is wasted aoe, plus the small distance and slow castspeed/lack of crits/freeze mean its almost useless.

BUFF THIS!

I'm using Ice Nova right now on my 29 templar, and I find it to be quite sufficient. It doesn't have the raw numbers that freezing pulse has but I find it a lot easier to use. Also, the numbers are a bit misleading since freezing pulse loses damage over range, where Ice Nova does not. This is especially handy when facing ranged mobs who won't move into a nice handy bunch for pulse to obliterate.

Dual wielding wands and I can kill whites in 3 blasts, and I swap to a hammer for single target dps.

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RedShades wrote:

I'm using Ice Nova right now on my 29 templar, and I find it to be quite sufficient. It doesn't have the raw numbers that freezing pulse has but I find it a lot easier to use. Also, the numbers are a bit misleading since freezing pulse loses damage over range, where Ice Nova does not. This is especially handy when facing ranged mobs who won't move into a nice handy bunch for pulse to obliterate.

Dual wielding wands and I can kill whites in 3 blasts, and I swap to a hammer for single target dps.

I'd agree that Ice Nova is a handy skill to have during the leveling process. When you get to the end game, it just never feels worth using.

Ice Nova.
Works great for me all the way to Merciless. Once I hit fellshrine it becomes pretty useless. I think its quite balanced though. I may be using the wrong supports. I use this in conjuction w/ molten shell. The Molten shell does all the work, I just use this to slow enemies. I need another attack for bosses though. I have been using firestorm for bosses. I think its fine but no nerf needed on this skill.

Does anyone know if the water nova spell effect scales with aoe radius, the default animation doesn't.

it does scale, animations don't scale yet though. or at least enough of them.

+80% AoE is the entire top and bottom of screen.