Cleave

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SSJRockyRambo wrote:

Cleave should only work with one-handed (non-dual-wielding) or two-handed weapons.

The game needs to make a distinction between the two different types of play.

Cleave should be for massive arc damage, it makes me think Barbarian type.

Dual Wielding should focus on quick, precise attacks.

There needs to be more of a distinction. I just don't think Cleave, as a skill, belongs with Dual Wield.

It's the only viable AOE option for dual wielders and the only reason dual-wielders can do Chaos in the first place.

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Karakkonor wrote:

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SSJRockyRambo wrote:

Cleave should only work with one-handed (non-dual-wielding) or two-handed weapons.

The game needs to make a distinction between the two different types of play.

Cleave should be for massive arc damage, it makes me think Barbarian type.

Dual Wielding should focus on quick, precise attacks.

There needs to be more of a distinction. I just don't think Cleave, as a skill, belongs with Dual Wield.

It's the only viable AOE option for dual wielders and the only reason dual-wielders can do Chaos in the first place.

That doesn't mean a skill or two could be made specifically for dual wield to fill that gap.

The idea is that no matter what weapon/armor you choose in this game, you have to make a trade-off.

Right now there isn't much of a trade-off with Dual Wield and Cleave. There needs to be. And no, lowering the damage of Cleave for Dual Wield is NOT a solution, it's a bandage. Instead of nerfing Cleave for Dual Wield, there needs to be new skills made for that type of play.

It seems like Dual Wield gets the best of both worlds, in a game that seems focused on the player making choices.

The Werewolf and Amazon's quick-hit skills from Diablo 2 worked well to fill that void you're talking about. Instead of just blunt force, random AOE damage, those characters could focus on precision, which seems to be what a Dual Wielder ideally IS.

I think you missed the part where cleave gets a 40% damage penalty for dual wielders. That's pretty hefty.

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Karakkonor wrote:

I think you missed the part where cleave gets a 40% damage penalty for dual wielders. That's pretty hefty.

Reread what I wrote.

The damage penalty is a bandaid. It's just a nerf to make the game balanced, instead of creating new content to balance it.

What would you rather have?

New skills to make Dual Wield more unique and viable with crowd control a la the Amazon's Jab, Paladin's Zeal, and the Werewolf's main skill?

Or just nerf other skills.

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Karakkonor wrote:

I think you missed the part where cleave gets a 40% damage penalty for dual wielders. That's pretty hefty.

Not really, since it's additive with your other damage bonuses from Strength/passives. It just means it takes a a little bit of character growth for DW to begin outpacing 2h with Cleave, rapidly. And it's not even that much, +62% damage is the breakpoint. On top of that the calculation doesn't even take into account the 10% IAS boost from DW, throwing it even more into its favor.

I'm using it with a 2h axe right now and would rather my character swing while the targeted mob is closer to max range. I can hold shift to keep him from walking too close to the target, but I don't think anything gets hit for 100% as the "primary" target if I do so.

Also, is the radius dependent on weapon type?

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/19802

In this thread we tried figuring out just how exactly Cleave is calculated on one of the weapons, but whichever way we spun or turned it, it would never equal up to the 377% physical damage increase it was supposed to come to. Can we get some clarification on how exactly it is calculated?

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RabidRabbit wrote:

Also, is the radius dependent on weapon type?

This would make a nice implicit mod for 2h weapons, "increased aoe for melee skills".

I thought the "increased AoE"-skills in the passive tree would increase the cleave-range?