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Pathological wrote:
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big_aug wrote:
Skill wise, I use Ground Slam, Glacial Hammer, and 2x Enduring Cry. Could someone confirm for me that damage reduction from enduring cry is applied to damage before it is taken away from your energy shield? All skills use Blood Magic support gems.
Energy shield just stands in for health - everything else about the way you take damage is unchanged. If endurance charge damage reduction didn't work for Energy Shield, ES would be utterly underpowered. Or, to put it more appropriately, endurance charges are so ridiculously overpowered compared to any other form of damage mitigation that any effective health base that didn't get affected by them would be comparatively useless.
Honestly, I would find a way to get that extra endurance charge into your build that you skipped near marauder. You can get it into your build at a cost of only 2 talent points. Assuming you are running a constant 6 charges, you can also spend a further 1 point for an extra 1.2% life regen per second.
This is the modified talent tree at 105 points with the extra endurance charge.
Solid tank build - I am looking for a heavy shield-focused build and I will probably start with this!
Well, the extra 1.2% life regen per second wouldn't really be worth it. I'm rarely taking actualy HP damage. It's mostly all ES unless chaos mobs. I'll think about hte extra End charge later on.
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Posted bybig_aug#3072on Feb 13, 2013, 9:59:01 AM
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big_aug wrote:
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Pathological wrote:
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big_aug wrote:
Skill wise, I use Ground Slam, Glacial Hammer, and 2x Enduring Cry. Could someone confirm for me that damage reduction from enduring cry is applied to damage before it is taken away from your energy shield? All skills use Blood Magic support gems.
Energy shield just stands in for health - everything else about the way you take damage is unchanged. If endurance charge damage reduction didn't work for Energy Shield, ES would be utterly underpowered. Or, to put it more appropriately, endurance charges are so ridiculously overpowered compared to any other form of damage mitigation that any effective health base that didn't get affected by them would be comparatively useless.
Honestly, I would find a way to get that extra endurance charge into your build that you skipped near marauder. You can get it into your build at a cost of only 2 talent points. Assuming you are running a constant 6 charges, you can also spend a further 1 point for an extra 1.2% life regen per second.
This is the modified talent tree at 105 points with the extra endurance charge.
Solid tank build - I am looking for a heavy shield-focused build and I will probably start with this!
Well, the extra 1.2% life regen per second wouldn't really be worth it. I'm rarely taking actualy HP damage. It's mostly all ES unless chaos mobs. I'll think about hte extra End charge later on.
Fair enough, but while the extra regen probably isn't worth it, the endurance charge DEFINITELY is.
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Posted byPathological#1188on Feb 13, 2013, 10:14:35 AM
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well, i'd say endurance charges are extremely OP, so u kinda have to get every one of them.
the way armor works is the bigger u get hit - the less of this hit is mitigated by armor. if u get hit a bunch of times but with low dmg, armor mitigates almost all of the dmg.
the way endurance charges work - they mitigate exactly what they say, no matter what dmg u take, u will mitigate that 5%, which is overpowered in my opinion.
PM me in the forum if i win
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Posted byHostick#4694on Feb 13, 2013, 10:14:49 AM
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do you think the same build would work on a templar?
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Posted byappetite#7556on Feb 13, 2013, 10:16:38 AM
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hooost wrote:
well, i'd say endurance charges are extremely OP, so u kinda have to get every one of them.
the way armor works is the bigger u get hit - the less of this hit is mitigated by armor. if u get hit a bunch of times but with low dmg, armor mitigates almost all of the dmg.
the way endurance charges work - they mitigate exactly what they say, no matter what dmg u take, u will mitigate that 5%, which is overpowered in my opinion.
Is there a formula for this somewhere?
It doesn't sound right to me. Increasing armor gives you a percentage damage reduction. Endurance charges are just a flat 5% each that add to that. Armor just doesn't scale well. It takes a lot of armor to increase damage reduction by 5%. The difference between 5 endurance charges and 6 endurance charges is only 5% damage reduction.
Last edited by big_aug#3072 on Feb 13, 2013, 10:22:02 AM
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Posted bybig_aug#3072on Feb 13, 2013, 10:20:53 AM
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appetite wrote:
do you think the same build would work on a templar?
I don't see why it wouldn't.
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Posted bybig_aug#3072on Feb 13, 2013, 10:21:37 AM
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big_aug wrote:
Is there a formula for this somewhere?
It doesn't sound right to me. Increasing armor gives you a percentage damage reduction. Endurance charges are just a flat 5% each that add to that. Armor just doesn't scale well. It takes a lot of armor to increase damage reduction by 5%. The difference between 5 endurance charges and 6 endurance charges is only 5% damage reduction.
It is right. The total damage taken* for physical damage is
D*(1-((A/(A+12*Damage))+0.05*E))
Essentially, armor scales inversely with damage taken, while endurance charges do not. That is why they are SO overpowered, and so necessary for characters tanking physical damage.
I put your stats from your OP into my defense calculator (tinyurl.com/poe-defense) and going from 5 to 6 endurance charges has the following effect on your effective hp (completely ignoring block chance, crits, granite flasks, etc). This is assuming an energy shield size of 1200, since I dont know how much you actually have.
Assume a granite flask with 100% armor mod:
As you can see, the mitigation gains on physical damage alone are very, very significant with even 1 charge gained.
Effective health is a slightly odd stat for your character given the way your ES regenerates at such a massive speed - your survivability on small fast hits is WAY above normal, for example - but it is still useful for determining your survivability against a 1 or 2 shot type situation.
Last edited by Pathological#1188 on Feb 13, 2013, 10:37:52 AM
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Posted byPathological#1188on Feb 13, 2013, 10:28:15 AM
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well that's how kripp explained it. if u take a bunch of small hits, u mitigate almost everything, but if brutus hits u for like 3k dmg, then the mitigation of your armor drops significantly to the point where u almost dont mitigate at all. but endurance charge is giving u 5% dmg reduction flat, no matter how hard brutus hits u. :P that's extremely good if u ask me.
i've got 1 question tho, why 2 endurance skill gems, what's the reasoning behind that? never used this skill, maybe it's obvious, i don't know.
PM me in the forum if i win Last edited by Hostick#4694 on Feb 13, 2013, 10:40:23 AM
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Posted byHostick#4694on Feb 13, 2013, 10:35:33 AM
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Pathological wrote:
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big_aug wrote:
Is there a formula for this somewhere?
It doesn't sound right to me. Increasing armor gives you a percentage damage reduction. Endurance charges are just a flat 5% each that add to that. Armor just doesn't scale well. It takes a lot of armor to increase damage reduction by 5%. The difference between 5 endurance charges and 6 endurance charges is only 5% damage reduction.
It is right. The total damage taken* for physical damage is
D*(1-((A/(A+12*Damage))+0.05*E))
Essentially, armor scales inversely with damage taken, while endurance charges do not. That is why they are SO overpowered, and so necessary for characters tanking physical damage.
I put your stats from your OP into my defense calculator (tinyurl.com/poe-defense) and going from 5 to 6 endurance charges has the following effect on your effective hp (completely ignoring block chance, crits, granite flasks, etc). This is assuming an energy shield size of 1200, since I dont know how much you actually have.
Assume a granite flask with 100% armor mod:
As you can see, the mitigation gains on physical damage alone are very, very significant with even 1 charge gained.
Effective health is a slightly odd stat for your character given the way your ES regenerates at such a massive speed - your survivability on small fast hits is WAY above normal, for example - but it is still useful for determining your survivability against a 1 or 2 shot type situation.
With a 97% flask and 5 endurance charges, I have 90% damage reduction on my character sheet. If armor is less effective against larger damage, then you're saying that 90% isn't accurate against those larger attacks?
A better way to say it would be that the damage reduction percentage on the character sheet is not accurate at all?
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hooost wrote:
well that's how kripp explained it. if u take a bunch of small hits, u mitigate almost everything, but if brutus hits u for like 3k dmg, then the mitigation of your armor drops significantly to the point where u almost dont mitigate at all. but endurance charge is giving u 5% dmg reduction flat, no matter how hard brutus hits u. :P that's extremely good if u ask me.
i've got 1 question tho, why 2 endurance skill gems, what's the reasoning behind that? never used this skill, maybe it's obvious, i don't know.
They are on different timers so you can use them back to back to get them built up faster.
Last edited by big_aug#3072 on Feb 13, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
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Posted bybig_aug#3072on Feb 13, 2013, 10:45:09 AM
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big_aug wrote:
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Pathological wrote:
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big_aug wrote:
Is there a formula for this somewhere?
It doesn't sound right to me. Increasing armor gives you a percentage damage reduction. Endurance charges are just a flat 5% each that add to that. Armor just doesn't scale well. It takes a lot of armor to increase damage reduction by 5%. The difference between 5 endurance charges and 6 endurance charges is only 5% damage reduction.
It is right. The total damage taken* for physical damage is
D*(1-((A/(A+12*Damage))+0.05*E))
Essentially, armor scales inversely with damage taken, while endurance charges do not. That is why they are SO overpowered, and so necessary for characters tanking physical damage.
I put your stats from your OP into my defense calculator (tinyurl.com/poe-defense) and going from 5 to 6 endurance charges has the following effect on your effective hp (completely ignoring block chance, crits, granite flasks, etc). This is assuming an energy shield size of 1200, since I dont know how much you actually have.
Assume a granite flask with 100% armor mod:
As you can see, the mitigation gains on physical damage alone are very, very significant with even 1 charge gained.
Effective health is a slightly odd stat for your character given the way your ES regenerates at such a massive speed - your survivability on small fast hits is WAY above normal, for example - but it is still useful for determining your survivability against a 1 or 2 shot type situation.
With a 97% flask and 5 endurance charges, I have 90% damage reduction on my character sheet. If armor is less effective against larger damage, then you're saying that 90% isn't accurate against those larger attacks?
Not even close.
Damage Reduction from armor = Armour / ( Armour + (12 * Damage) ). As an example, to mitigate 50% of incoming physical damage (approximately), you need about 12 times the armor as the incoming damage (assuming no endurance charges).
Endurance charges are so important because each extra endurance charge reduces the amount of negatively scaling armor based damage reduction you need by a static amount.
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Posted byPathological#1188on Feb 13, 2013, 10:55:12 AM
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