Stringing on the Kickstarter customer, or Why this game needs to die

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

I'm not going to say it's a bad idea, but it's not going to happen so you should stop even speculating about it.

Of course, not really going into realism of it all, and it would also be impossible to emulate every single unique property with rares. However, some major properties would be feasible, low life doesn't enable only one build but a whole bunch of them so giving an alternative access to it might have some merit (alternative, not cheaper, and better only if rares are really, really good). I'm not suggesting to replace facebreakers with 150% more unarmed damage rare affix.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

And yes, GGG are completely responsible for players choosing to take the easy way out.

I guess this is where I just disagree. There are lots of ways I could make the game easier or faster for myself, but I choose not to because that would remove the challenge and the fun.

I think that if you decide to take the easy way out, and wind up not having fun because of it, that's entirely 100% on you, not GGG. You (the hypothetical you) had a choice, made it, and didn't like the results. Your choices have consequences; welcome to life.

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pneuma wrote:

Meta: tackle, please cut out the attempts to discredit others

I'm sorry, but I keep seeing feedback about how GGG has changed their vision / direction for the game, and playing since day 1 of OB I just don't see it. I don't see it at all. Not on anything significant anyways. And the areas where there has been small change (e.g. you now have party loot allocation options), the change has by and large been for the better. They have been EXTREMELY consistent from what I've seen since then.

Now, maybe the whole thing was different in Alpha or CB and I just missed out, but I am happy to point out the times where I think the accusations leveled at the game's direction are unfounded.

I appreciate your clarifications - I agree that early/mid game has become 100% uninteresting. It's a big reason I won't play temp leagues... the game doesn't even start to become interesting until Act 3 cruel unless you are intentionally placing restrictions on yourself to make the game difficult.

In my opinion, this is because GGG's way of making the game "difficult" up until about A3 cruel is to just hide systems from players. 100% of the difficulty of Normal and most of Cruel is for new players to figure out what the hell is going on and how all the games systems work. For longtime players, you know all this, and so there's zero difficulty. GGG would do well to just communicate everything up front about how the game works, and then put some actual challenge into Normal and Cruel since they could assume that even new players know what's going on.



I still disagree about the uniques, and I do still see the whole thing as QQ. GGG is explicitly saying that these things aren't BiS because an acceptable percentage of people are using them, but all I hear on the forums is that "Shavs OP OP OP... Shavs is an abomination... Shavs OP OP OP OP whyyyyyyyyyyy u do dis GGG?". This, to my mind, not only ignores GGGs explicit statements on the matter, but the fact that mediocre gear/build + shavs does not suddenly become a GG build. Shavs is a part of a system currently in place which, due to a combination of factors, enables extremely powerful builds. I think that it's misguided to place all the blame on one unique, or even the design philosophy of uniques as a whole.

And I will again ask the question - even if it's different (which again, since OB, it's not) - is it worse? I'd say no. I agree that rarity is not balance, but endgame gearing would be completely uninteresting if every. single. build. went for the exact same mirrored rares. The game would quickly devolve into an itemization system not unlike what Diablo 3 had on launch where you just stack +HP +primary stat +crit and that's it. If it was the case in Alpha/CB that GGG intended that by level ~75+ you would be entirely done with uniques because you surpassed them with rares, then GGG has made the correct decision for the game in reversing that direction. Vanilla D3's itemization was proof that such a system is godawful.

Also, this statment is just false:

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anyone can hit max level in two weeks

If that were true, there would be a LOT more than 222 level 100 characters.

And I think that, while the seraph wings are egregiously inconsistent with the rest of the art design, it's still true that it's optional. Maybe I'm an exception in that I play 99.9% of the time solo, but I think that quite a few people play primarily solo in this game.

^that statement is correct btw, 6 hours under 2 weeks is the best done so far if i remember correctly.

Do note, that's 24 hours x 14 :) continuously without brakes. So it's not actually done in 2 weeks.

Peace,

-Boem-

There is no reason why easily numerically scaling unique mods shouldn't be rare affixes. Facebreakers shouldn't be a unique, it should be a glove affix, with multiple numerical tiers.

This doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't have a unique Facebreakers, just that they shouldn't be build-defining - that is, Facebreakers shouldn't have a monopoly on unarmed builds.

No unique should be build-defining. Instead, they should be build-defined. Here's a spontaneous example of what I mean...

The Siege
Unique Sniper Bow (ilvl 44, 25-74 dmg base, 1.15 aps)
Adds 5-50 Physical Damage
(160 to 180)% increased Physical Damage
20% increased Critical Strike chance
20% reduced Attack Speed
40% more Damage over Time
+(200 to 250) to Accuracy

Ending DPS: 184.0-198.2

Such a unique tells one pretty clearly what it is for: Puncture, Poison Arrow, maybe Burning Arrow, particularly with Trap support. It has lopsided top-end damage for better bleeds and burns. You could easily run maps with it. But at the end of the day, a rare top-end rare bow is better; either you get +skills on the bow for Poison Arrow or you deal more physical damage for Puncture.

THe point is: you will find a better rare eventually. Every unique should be a leveling unique. Without exception. It's just that, sometimes, those levels should be 65 through 95.

On the higher-level uniques, this normally involves drawbacks. You need a lot of power to make them appealing, but a reason to stop use eventually. A bow that feels mirror-worthy at long range but has issues up close, a dagger which feels mirror-worthy on low ES but more normal otherwise, etc.

For lower-level uniques you can be crazier. Imagine if Crown of Eyes still had the damage conversion mod, but was balanced as ilvl 12 Velvet Gloves. Even that might be too good (even at high levels rare gloves have limited offensive capacity), but at least you'd have more risk/reward and an alternate method for leveling spellcasters. Why it's on the best freaking ES-helm base type in the game, with stupid-high accuracy and leech, is beyond me.

There's almost no spacing in terms of ilvl. The vast majority of uniques. are either low-level with crap mods guaranteeing their vendor trash status, or on high base types to make a ridiculous item even ridiculouser. A lot more low-lovel uniques could remain relevant much longer if GGG would have saved its powerful mods for lower bases.

Rant complete I guess.

I agree with Scrotie. Theoretically numerically superior doesn't cut it; the reality is you generally use one of a few unique chests, a couple of which are build-defining (if you consider MoM a build necessary to most casters, include Cloak of Defiance).

There are tweaks still to be done, such as to armour, which may make legacy/new Kaoms or Belly of the Beast the less-preferred options - but given the continued gutting of life nodes, I sincerely doubt it.

Edit: those were just examples of chest armour issues, in case it was unclear - there are other examples of where GGG hasn't yet managed to edge rare items over the power/utility of uniques.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

THe point is: you will find a better rare eventually. Every unique should be a leveling unique. Without exception. It's just that, sometimes, those levels should be 65 through 95.

I strongly disagree with this. I don't think there should be any problems with certain uniques being BIS for certain builds. It's when the unique is best in most cases I struggle, which uniques that held those spots, like lioneyes, shavs, kaoms and whatever else, have all been nerfed directly or have had things around them be nerfed/buffed.

You're disconnection with the current game is showing through as well and crown of eyes is a fairly niche item now that's fairly uncommon since it doesn't get PA/RF bonuses anymore. Rat's nest and abyssus easily kill it damage and ease of use wise.

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davidnn5 wrote:

Edit: those were just examples of chest armour issues, in case it was unclear - there are other examples of where GGG hasn't yet managed to edge rare items over the power/utility of uniques.

I'm actually really scratching my head over here. Outside of chest slot and malis in glove, I can't think of any uniques which really overwhelm a slot. There's no weapons at the moment, doryani's is close but for spells, really only for incinerate because of it having no crit. Doryani is a good 1h attack mace, but doesn't have crit so easily beaten by lower DPS ones. My 220 1her actually beats out my 270 doryani because of the crit. Windripper rules ele bows, but ele bow is way out of favor, bow CoC still doesn't compare to wand or even ST/cyclone. Volt is extremely niche at this point. Doryani belt doesn't beat out a good life belt. With the block nerf rare shields are good as shit like aegis and rathpit. Rat's nest, alpha and abyssus dominate helm but I don't think they are too strong to let go of and many people are scared to use abyssus for good reason. There are no OP boots, windscreams have gone away because +1 curse corrupted ammys, atziri's steps are close but still pretty niche. No jewelry is auto-include.

Honestly, am I missing something? Right now there's no truly OP unique. There's no lioneyes, kaoms, shavs or whatever that are no brainers and are so strong you're gimping yourself by not using them.

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Boem wrote:

^that statement is correct btw, 6 hours under 2 weeks is the best done so far if i remember correctly.

Do note, that's 24 hours x 14 :) continuously without brakes. So it's not actually done in 2 weeks.

Peace,

-Boem-

No, that statement is not correct. Here are correct statements:
"It is possible to hit max level in two weeks"
"Some players can hit max level in two weeks"

Here is an incorrect statement:
"Anyone can hit max level in two weeks"

Notice the difference? I thought it would be obvious... guess not. You have to have the combination of available time, skill, and desire to do that, and only a tiny, tiny portion of PoE players fit that category.

There is a difference between build balance, and itemization balance. If no build is stupidly more powerful than others, then there is a fair degree of build balance. If, given one build, there is one chest which is stupidly more powerful than other chests, then there is an instance of itemization imbalance.

One major problem with itemization balance at present is that everything is a contest between one or more uniques, and a single rare. The best 3 prefixes for a slot is overly standardized.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

There is a difference between build balance, and itemization balance. If no build is stupidly more powerful than others, then there is a fair degree of build balance. If, given one build, there is one chest which is stupidly more powerful than other chests, then there is an instance of itemization imbalance.

This cuts both ways. GG CI builds wouldn't touch Shavs.

Sure, you can make a GG build for which Shavs is a BiS chest. You can also make GG builds for which Shavs would be an awful choice. Sounds pretty balanced to me.

The BiS thing should always be contested. There should not be a clear answer.

Shav's is a horrible design. If for no other reason than it has no real competition.