Stringing on the Kickstarter customer, or Why this game needs to die

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eragon1111 wrote:

So you are sayin that developer building rollercaster when client wanted skateboard is a good understanding of client ? (In matter of supporters that don't like the outcome).

I'm saying that some people on here thought they were buying a carousel when they saw the construction crew arrive at the amusement park to begin building a roller coaster, even though all they were promised was a fun amusement park ride. Now the ride is finished and some people are crying that it is a roller coaster instead of a carousel, even though they were never promised a carousel.

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Point is GGG decisions were mostly made to please the crowd.

So what you're really saying is that this entire thread is just QQ from folks who wound up in the minority as far as where the game should go? Because I agree with this 100% so long as you realize that "crowd" and "supporter" are not even close to mutually exclusive groups. It's also worth mentioning that the minority is not always right.

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tackle70 wrote:

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eragon1111 wrote:

So you are sayin that developer building rollercaster when client wanted skateboard is a good understanding of client ? (In matter of supporters that don't like the outcome).

I'm saying that some people on here thought they were buying a carousel when they saw the construction crew arrive at the amusement park to begin building a roller coaster, even though all they were promised was a fun amusement park ride. Now the ride is finished and some people are crying that it is a roller coaster instead of a carousel, even though they were never promised a carousel.

"

Point is GGG decisions were mostly made to please the crowd.

So what you're really saying is that this entire thread is just QQ from folks who wound up in the minority as far as where the game should go? Because I agree with this 100% so long as you realize that "crowd" and "supporter" are not even close to mutually exclusive groups.

When we change the rollercaster with "casual shit" and carousel with "hardcore innovative game" - outcome is hilarious :)

Ofcourse these (less brightest beings) are in a bigger group NOW, they were not in CB. And if customers from kickstarter said they want a carousel, then they should get f* carousel, bcoz they founded whole amusementpark, even if it only consisted of 2 rides and 1 gocard...

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eragon1111 wrote:

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tackle70 wrote:

"

eragon1111 wrote:

So you are sayin that developer building rollercaster when client wanted skateboard is a good understanding of client ? (In matter of supporters that don't like the outcome).

I'm saying that some people on here thought they were buying a carousel when they saw the construction crew arrive at the amusement park to begin building a roller coaster, even though all they were promised was a fun amusement park ride. Now the ride is finished and some people are crying that it is a roller coaster instead of a carousel, even though they were never promised a carousel.

"

Point is GGG decisions were mostly made to please the crowd.

So what you're really saying is that this entire thread is just QQ from folks who wound up in the minority as far as where the game should go? Because I agree with this 100% so long as you realize that "crowd" and "supporter" are not even close to mutually exclusive groups.

When we change the rollercaster with "casual shit" and carousel with "hardcore innovative game" - outcome is hilarious :)

Ofcourse these (less brightest beings) are in a bigger group NOW, they were not in CB. And if customers from kickstarter said they want a carousel, then they should get f* carousel, bcoz they founded whole amusementpark, even if it only consisted of 2 rides and 1 gocard...

The problem with this analogy is you are a supporter, not an investor. You didn't "found" the amusement park, you just bought tickets to get in before it opened, and received a tee-shirt. there was never any expectation that you would have any more or less "right" to have any ride you chose.

If you no longer have fun at the park, stop going, but you still have the tee-shirt, which is everything you bought with your early access ticket.

You can do like the op is doing and picket outside the gate of the park to try and have it closed down, because it did not live up to your vision, despite the fact that thousands of people are still having a lot of fun playing in the park. of course that just makes you look like a sad, bitter, entitled, little person.

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tackle70 wrote:

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eragon1111 wrote:

"Supporters have way better knowledge about current PoE and what PoE should have end up with, than the team developing the game..."

I don't agree with this at all. The developers have VASTLY more data and knowledge than any supporter about what is healthy for the game and what is not.

I agree with tackle on this point. In my OP I do not say that GGG is clueless and doesn't know how to do things; I point out areas where I'm confident they do know. Yet still didn't.

I'm not painting GGG as bumblers who goofed; I am painting them as sellouts. They knew about the health of the game; they chose the health of the business. Perhaps the idiot image is more flattering, at least to some of the older supporters.

Although I must admit, the playerbase as a whole has been an issue. I part of me wonders if a part of GGG's soul died reading Dominus fight feedback in November '13, after which they just said "fuck it, we'll make even more shit like CWDT."

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Xtorma wrote:

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eragon1111 wrote:

When we change the rollercaster with "casual shit" and carousel with "hardcore innovative game" - outcome is hilarious :)

Ofcourse these (less brightest beings) are in a bigger group NOW, they were not in CB. And if customers from kickstarter said they want a carousel, then they should get f* carousel, bcoz they founded whole amusementpark, even if it only consisted of 2 rides and 1 gocard...

The problem with this analogy is you are a supporter, not an investor. You didn't "found" the amusement park, you just bought tickets to get in before it opened, and received a tee-shirt. there was never any expectation that you would have any more or less "right" to have any ride you chose.

If you no longer have fun at the park, stop going, but you still have the tee-shirt, which is everything you bought with your early access ticket.

You can do like the op is doing and picket outside the gate of the park to try and have it closed down, because it did not live up to your vision, despite the fact that thousands of people are still having a lot of fun playing in the park. of course that just makes you look like a sad, bitter, entitled, little person.

This. So much this. I've been saying this all along in this thread - most of what I see is people who apparently supported this game on false pretenses and became self-deceived into what they were actually doing with their money. This game is not and has never been funded on a Kickstarter model where there are specific promises made to supporters as to what they would receive.

This goes double because the better analogy is probably not between a carousel and a roller coaster but between a wooden coaster (what a few CB supporters thought they were buying) and a steel coaster (what GGG was building all along).

Like I said, I've seen nothing but consistency from GGG ever since day 1 of OB. They have done a bunch of things I disagreed with (I despised 99.9% of the SotV expansion) but so much of what I've read in this thread just comes across to me as being based on faults within the expectations of individual supporters, and not with the design philosophy of GGG.

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tackle70 wrote:

Like I said, I've seen nothing but consistency from GGG ever since day 1 of OB. They have done a bunch of things I disagreed with (I despised 99.9% of the SotV expansion) but so much of what I've read in this thread just comes across to me as being based on faults within the expectations of individual supporters, and not with the design philosophy of GGG.

I sometimes feel like I'm crazy because all those old closed beta guys are saying that PoE sucks and isn't what it was supposed to be and I as an old closed beta guy like the game exactly as it is :/

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Xavderion wrote:

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tackle70 wrote:

Like I said, I've seen nothing but consistency from GGG ever since day 1 of OB. They have done a bunch of things I disagreed with (I despised 99.9% of the SotV expansion) but so much of what I've read in this thread just comes across to me as being based on faults within the expectations of individual supporters, and not with the design philosophy of GGG.

I sometimes feel like I'm crazy because all those old closed beta guys are saying that PoE sucks and isn't what it was supposed to be and I as an old closed beta guy like the game exactly as it is :/

There is only one explanation!



Peace,

-Boem-

Get off my lawn, ya punks!

*rolls back in rocking chair on porch, whilst rolling a straw of hay between his lips*

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Xavderion wrote:

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tackle70 wrote:

Like I said, I've seen nothing but consistency from GGG ever since day 1 of OB. They have done a bunch of things I disagreed with (I despised 99.9% of the SotV expansion) but so much of what I've read in this thread just comes across to me as being based on faults within the expectations of individual supporters, and not with the design philosophy of GGG.

I sometimes feel like I'm crazy because all those old closed beta guys are saying that PoE sucks and isn't what it was supposed to be and I as an old closed beta guy like the game exactly as it is :/

Some of us say it isn't what we expected it to be but its still a blast to play and the best ARPG out there. That doesn't mean we can't critique the hell out of it anyway. I am more critical of things I like than things that suck and are dead.

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tackle70 wrote:

This. So much this.

You better not go there. I mean, what's the difference between an investor and a supporter? An investor is basically a conditional supporter that says "I'll give you money to do your stuff IF you do this with your project or it brings me that later". The creator can accept the condition and money or refuse it if it's too unreasonable or doesn't fit his vision and the investor can sue him later if his demands aren't met.

On the other hand, a supporter gives the money based on trust. So, you can't really betray the trust of an investor, because there wasn't any in the first place, it's ridiculous.