Remove xp penalty's from death

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Remove the incentive to build a well balanced character because of the miniscule amounts of 'unavoidable' deaths someone will have? Sounds like a great idea :3 You guys should become game designers.

That's the problem here. Many people that want the XP penalty to be gone speak like they die several times a day because of unavoidable/"not on player's end" factors. If it was the case, there would be no hardcore league in this game at all. And there are hardcore leagues in this game, with many people being level 100 in those too.

Just a small anecdote. My only hc character this patch died at 74 because of desync. If I weren't desynced, I would've lived, I'm sure about that 100%. But this doesn't mean my death was unavoidable. I was reckless and cocky, I got stunned several times in that bullshit map (dunno about the map affixes but it was above 80% quantity) but I kept going. One time I got stunned without noticing it because I got desynced, and I died. Is desync to blame for this death? Only if you're looking for excuses for my dumb play. I feel like most desync deaths are preventable and people are making excuses for playing dumb. The exp loss on death has to stay so people have an incentive to play and build better. For me it's also about integrity, if GGG caves again and removes the penalty, I'll quit the game for good. Quote me on it if this happens :)

i think they should increase the penalty.

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Xavderion wrote:

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Remove the incentive to build a well balanced character because of the miniscule amounts of 'unavoidable' deaths someone will have? Sounds like a great idea :3 You guys should become game designers.

That's the problem here. Many people that want the XP penalty to be gone speak like they die several times a day because of unavoidable/"not on player's end" factors. If it was the case, there would be no hardcore league in this game at all. And there are hardcore leagues in this game, with many people being level 100 in those too.

Just a small anecdote. My only hc character this patch died at 74 because of desync. If I weren't desynced, I would've lived, I'm sure about that 100%. But this doesn't mean my death was unavoidable. I was reckless and cocky, I got stunned several times in that bullshit map (dunno about the map affixes but it was above 80% quantity) but I kept going. One time I got stunned without noticing it because I got desynced, and I died. Is desync to blame for this death? Only if you're looking for excuses for my dumb play. I feel like most desync deaths are preventable and people are making excuses for playing dumb. The exp loss on death has to stay so people have an incentive to play and build better. For me it's also about integrity, if GGG caves again and removes the penalty, I'll quit the game for good. Quote me on it if this happens :)

I totally agree with you. I'd be more like 50/50 on the desync/stunned death though, since your client still doesn't show you're stunlocked on the servers (which is the game's fault), but if you were not in a dangerous situation or with an easily stunnable unprepared character, you'd have not died (which is the player's fault).

Haven't read everything posted here, so forgive me if someone already posted this...

I've played PoE for a full year as a more or less casual player, I'm not playing atm ( waiting for act 4) and just picked up Dark Souls 2. I'm not comparing the two, but one thing I thought about was if you could possibly adapt DS death penalty to PoE.

(to those not familiar with the Souls games: you kill monsters and collect souls, that serve both as currency and xp, if you're slain you lose all your unspent souls but can regain all of them if you go back to where you were killed and touch the stain on the ground, only the last death counts - monsters respawn upon your death).

With some twitches ( e.g. you gain back only part of your xp loss, you have to full clear the instance where you've died, ...) could it work? What do you guys think?


Just my 2c - I just think From Software really nailed it.

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Wazz72 wrote:

Haven't read everything posted here, so forgive me if someone already posted this...

I've played PoE for a full year as a more or less casual player, I'm not playing atm ( waiting for act 4) and just picked up Dark Souls 2. I'm not comparing the two, but one thing I thought about was if you could possibly adapt DS death penalty to PoE.

(to those not familiar with the Souls games: you kill monsters and collect souls, that serve both as currency and xp, if you're slain you lose all your unspent souls but can regain all of them if you go back to where you were killed and touch the stain on the ground, only the last death counts - monsters respawn upon your death).

With some twitches ( e.g. you gain back only part of your xp loss, you have to full clear the instance where you've died, ...) could it work? What do you guys think?


Just my 2c - I just think From Software really nailed it.

Wazz great to see fresh meat posting in the thread, can't blame you for not reading all 60 pages though.

Your idea of a "recover" mechanic is one i've already mentioned and actually do support, however it would be more limited then you mentioned. I've never played DS, but I've watched some gameplay and understand the concept for the idea you are proposing.

I think the recovery mechanic would do 2 things, those that play alone and die to something either out of their control or "stupidly" will have the ability to recover no more then 1/2 the XP lost. The number would need to be tweaked, but the concept is that if you die you can recover some XP. However, if you are in a full 6 man party, there are no portals left, you won't recover anything, but at the same time mapping in a party should be safer for multiple reasons. More meat shields, more auras, should overall be faster clear speed as well.

Also to add to the recovery system.

1. It has the potential to spiral quickly. I remember in D2 being driven insane trying to recover my body only to die repeatedly losing much more exp than if I just left and started a new ...instance? (forgot what it was called exactly, game? I dunno, unimportant). But there's that pride factor that says "fuck this, I know I can grab it and get that exp back.

2. If it's easy to recover your exp, we're just effectively lower the exp penalty and adding a new component. While not bad, it might not change anything but punish those who entered an unsalvageable situation more than they currently are. Let's say they change it to 16% (nice and round) and you get 8% back under whatever condition (recovering body, killing monster/pack that killed you, full clearing instance, whatever). For most of us it will be a 2% nerf to the current penalty. But someone who tried palace dom on a whim and didn't stand a chance, well they're losing an additional 6%. It will allow stupid deaths to be more forgiving but the deaths that we try to avoid it will make more punishing. That insane map with an exile, now you can't get your exp back because even with help that exile isn't going down easy. Decided to try out atziri and failed miserably, well enjoy the extra 6% off the top.

So while it's not a bad idea, I can see unfortunate side effects.

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goetzjam wrote:

Wazz great to see fresh meat posting in the thread, can't blame you for not reading all 60 pages though.

FUCK THAT! Read it all noob or no opinion allowed! (before edited by support, it's just a joke, please my anus is not prepared!)

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goetzjam wrote:

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Wazz72 wrote:

Haven't read everything posted here, so forgive me if someone already posted this...

I've played PoE for a full year as a more or less casual player, I'm not playing atm ( waiting for act 4) and just picked up Dark Souls 2. I'm not comparing the two, but one thing I thought about was if you could possibly adapt DS death penalty to PoE.

(to those not familiar with the Souls games: you kill monsters and collect souls, that serve both as currency and xp, if you're slain you lose all your unspent souls but can regain all of them if you go back to where you were killed and touch the stain on the ground, only the last death counts - monsters respawn upon your death).

With some twitches ( e.g. you gain back only part of your xp loss, you have to full clear the instance where you've died, ...) could it work? What do you guys think?


Just my 2c - I just think From Software really nailed it.

Wazz great to see fresh meat posting in the thread, can't blame you for not reading all 60 pages though.

Your idea of a "recover" mechanic is one i've already mentioned and actually do support, however it would be more limited then you mentioned. I've never played DS, but I've watched some gameplay and understand the concept for the idea you are proposing.

I think the recovery mechanic would do 2 things, those that play alone and die to something either out of their control or "stupidly" will have the ability to recover no more then 1/2 the XP lost. The number would need to be tweaked, but the concept is that if you die you can recover some XP. However, if you are in a full 6 man party, there are no portals left, you won't recover anything, but at the same time mapping in a party should be safer for multiple reasons. More meat shields, more auras, should overall be faster clear speed as well.

Thanks, I agree with your idea to let players recover around 1/2 of their lost xp, but not much more/less...
In solo play this mechanic would work fine, in a party is another matter - expecially when in a map, where it counts the most and portals are limited. Can't really help here, as I've played almost always solo, but I'd say you should have a chanche to recover lost xp only if there are portals available, otherwise you cannot enter the istance and all xp is lost. And a full clear before you can recover your xp would fit imo.

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Xavderion wrote:

Just a small anecdote. My only hc character this patch died at 74 because of desync. If I weren't desynced, I would've lived, I'm sure about that 100%. But this doesn't mean my death was unavoidable. I was reckless and cocky, I got stunned several times in that bullshit map (dunno about the map affixes but it was above 80% quantity) but I kept going. One time I got stunned without noticing it because I got desynced, and I died. Is desync to blame for this death? Only if you're looking for excuses for my dumb play.

Its something different when people play not dumb like you and die.

Its actually discussing the death when you play like a normal human. Not dumb like you and not like hardcore pussies that piss their pants of every noise and logout after being hit.

I can come up with even more ridiculous argument against removing or adjusting penalty than you posted. With desync and death and not even a bit of understanding why some people crying about adjusting penalty

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Moosifer wrote:

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2. If it's easy to recover your exp, we're just effectively lower the exp penalty and adding a new component. While not bad, it might not change anything but punish those who entered an unsalvageable situation more than they currently are. Let's say they change it to 16% (nice and round) and you get 8% back under whatever condition (recovering body, killing monster/pack that killed you, full clearing instance, whatever). For most of us it will be a 2% nerf to the current penalty. But someone who tried palace dom on a whim and didn't stand a chance, well they're losing an additional 6%. It will allow stupid deaths to be more forgiving but the deaths that we try to avoid it will make more punishing. That insane map with an exile, now you can't get your exp back because even with help that exile isn't going down easy. Decided to try out atziri and failed miserably, well enjoy the extra 6% off the top.

So while it's not a bad idea, I can see unfortunate side effects.

I'm not suggesting GGG should increase the death penalty, I'm viewing this as a recovery mechanism to alleviate xp loss on those deaths due to desync/lag more than anything else. Granted, It would also work for the stupid/reckless ones, but can't help that.
On your concern that it will punish more those who try some hard content and die repeatedly, well if the xp penalty stays at 10%, nothing changes for them,so...
If you think istead that it would just result in effectively halving the xp death penalty, well I'm not so sure; only some testing could tell - maybe a 1-week race with this mechanic GGG? ;-)

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Wazz72 wrote:

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Moosifer wrote:

...
2. If it's easy to recover your exp, we're just effectively lower the exp penalty and adding a new component. While not bad, it might not change anything but punish those who entered an unsalvageable situation more than they currently are. Let's say they change it to 16% (nice and round) and you get 8% back under whatever condition (recovering body, killing monster/pack that killed you, full clearing instance, whatever). For most of us it will be a 2% nerf to the current penalty. But someone who tried palace dom on a whim and didn't stand a chance, well they're losing an additional 6%. It will allow stupid deaths to be more forgiving but the deaths that we try to avoid it will make more punishing. That insane map with an exile, now you can't get your exp back because even with help that exile isn't going down easy. Decided to try out atziri and failed miserably, well enjoy the extra 6% off the top.

So while it's not a bad idea, I can see unfortunate side effects.

I'm not suggesting GGG should increase the death penalty, I'm viewing this as a recovery mechanism to alleviate xp loss on those deaths due to desync/lag more than anything else. Granted, It would also work for the stupid/reckless ones, but can't help that.
On your concern that it will punish more those who try some hard content and die repeatedly, well if the xp penalty stays at 10%, nothing changes for them,so...
If you think istead that it would just result in effectively halving the xp death penalty, well I'm not so sure; only some testing could tell - maybe a 1-week race with this mechanic GGG? ;-)

I think Moo doesn't want the penalty reduced at all, I don't think I do either, but as a compromise and interesting mechanic change would be to allow for some recovery that we had discussed. It would allow a player to gain some of the XP back if they had died from something like desync (assuming there are still portals left) while at the same time punishing players for willingly throwing themselves at content they aren't ready for.

The mechanic could require some X amount of time channeling your body in order to get some of the XP back, perhaps even make it adjustable depending on how many monsters are left in the map. So if you decide to be done with the map you can still get some XP back, but if you clear the rest of the map and return you can get an even higher percent back.

With that being said start at 2% and maybe go up to 5% recovered. Maybe start at 2 and go to 4. I don't think recovering more then 1/2 XP should be possible.