Remove xp penalty's from death

Simply put, I do not support a death penalty that makes getting to 100 even one iota easier. If anything, it should be more harsh at higher levels. I'd be ok with some sort of diminishing returns/bellcurve penalty that effectively made getting to 90 somewhat easier, but then steeply increasing the penalty after that.

Some of what's being suggested here (penalties paid in alt/trans orbs... are you fucking serious???) is just laughably lax.

And if you're going to continue to use desync as your main support, then just come right out and advocate no death penalty at all, since that is exactly where that line of logic is headed.

Sorry if that's too harsh. I can use softer language if a hugbox environment is what you're after.

"

Antnee wrote:

Simply put, I do not support a death penalty that makes getting to 100 even one iota easier. If anything, it should be more harsh at higher levels. I'd be ok with some sort of diminishing returns/bellcurve penalty that effectively made getting to 90 somewhat easier, but then steeply increasing the penalty after that.

Some of what's being suggested here (penalties paid in alt/trans orbs... are you fucking serious???) is just laughably lax.

And if you're going to continue to use desync as your main support, then just come right out and advocate no death penalty at all, since that is exactly where that line of logic is headed.

Sorry if that's too harsh. I can use softer language if a hugbox environment is what you're after.

Some people are advocating that. I personally don't care if it's that or an alternate penalty you choose from, but you have failed to mention why you think 100 should be so unattainable. I still haven't heard a good reason for it.

I feel like a broken record, I've said this so many times.

100 should be special, not a binary check of whether you're done or not. Every other online RPG I can think of is full of people at cap, and that's fucking boring. Let this one game be the exception.

Again, you've stated what you want, but not why that's necessarily a good thing for this game. Also, calling it a "binary check" is one hell of an overstatement considering how much exp it really takes to get there.

Level / Exp required

70 / 363,906,163
75 / 560,961,898
80 / 855,129,128
85 / 1,291,270,350
90 / 1,934,009,687
95 / 2,876,116,901
100 / 4,250,334,444

And just for fun, exp to go from 99 to 100: 317,515,914 (almost as much as 1-70).

A level 85 character takes as much exp as 3 level 70s. Level 100 is nearly 4 level 85s.

It's still a commitment to get to 100.

Even if they removed it entirely, which I'm not necessarily asking for (but wouldn't mind), giving more players a little more access to a few more levels would help player retention, and the content itself would still remain challenging because it still requires a good build and good gear. Limited portals means it still requires good play.

I have not seen one good reason why this would cause much (if any) harm, and it would definitely do a lot of good. There's a lot of stuff in the game that can cheese you even if you don't desync, and the Holy Trinity of Protection (CWDT+IC+End Cry) looks to be getting the nerf bat in the next major update. Player frustration should come from actual difficulty--not from bad design.

You've missed the point of my "binary check" statement. It's directly tied in to my comment about other games. As in:

Sorry, I can't raid with you. I'm not at cap yet.

1, 0. Cap, not cap. This game (currently) isn't like that. It's good for the game because its an effective way of keeping people playing; a long road is compelling, and gives you a greater sense of progression over longer periods of time. If you're not progressing (read: dying), you need to re-evaluate your build or your strategy.

Removing the penalty: Eh, just zerg it.

Also, getting to 100 needs to be more than a simple commitment of time. You have to play flawlessly over long periods of time. THAT is what makes it special. In an era where games hand out achievements simply for logging on, I welcome a challenge that will feel like an actual accomplishment if I ever choose to do it.

There are very few aspects of POE that feel hardcore anymore. The tiny handful of people at cap is one of them.

Edit: and please, for the love of fuck, "bad design" is not a synonym for "something I dislike". Stop that.

If you want HC, play the HC league. Thats what it's there for.

As stated earlier, a smart game/company designs a product for as wide a consumer base as possible. That's how they make their money.

There is nothing "hardcore" about seeing hours (or days at higher levels) worth of grinding, as well as map portals, currency, and maps themselves going down the crapper because the fucking server thought you pulled a derp and just stood there in the middle of a pack scratching your ass and not doing anything to protect yourself.


Getting to 100 is already a huge time investment, even if there is no xp loss or by some miracle you never suffer a death. It's not something that everybody will achieve on any 1 character. But i'd LIKE to play a game that dosnt randomly punish me or push me back thru a map or 2 worth of work thru no fault of my own. As would allot of people.

Very few games are made from the get-go to cater to the tiny minority of players. Quite the opposite. Now if you HC junkies can find something (either as a "bone" tossed to your small group by the devs, or maybe something that's just difficult for the majority of the playerbase to access or do) in-game that distinguishes you from the bulk of the other players, then great. Good for you.

Don't expect a business to run itself into the ground catering to your niche market, though.

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

The opposition are basically either trolls or masochists, and either way don't represent the health of the game.

How am I a troll when I've given long, well thought out responses to the majority of points brought up/I've seen?

"

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

Seems like a troll would quote their own reply after someone says they know the exact answer to their reply.

Masochists, maybe but from my travels to 99, I've learn that I'm not going remotely that high without a build I'm absolutely in love with. Which will not be cookie cutter or an invincible tank as I don't really ever do the latter and usually don't do the former unless wrapped up in another project. Which really I won't take an invincible build far because they bore the shit out of me, I'd only put one together for atziri, which at that point I've given up on leveling anyways.

So if you guys really think I'm a troll you haven't seen anything. I could really go nuts but I choose to try to get into real discussions. I had respect for you because I thought you were a good person to disagree with but these last few comments from you reminded me that there's no such thing.

@Albino: You've turned into quite the hypocrite in this thread. I'll enumerate a few:

~Calling your opposition trolls (a trollish remark)
~Suggesting "elitism" is the only leg Goetz has to stand on (which he is prone to do, but he's made plenty of well reasoned replies, to which your "only leg to stand on" is "lel ur a troll.")
~Asserting that opposing arguments are invalid due to lack of quantitative dats (lacking quantitative data yourself).

You replied to demon's post as though you understood him/her, meanwhile it served as a rebuttal against you as well. Before you point your finger at somebody else, why don't you take a good long look at yourself, and ask: "Am I capable of understanding and representing opposing opinions in my replies, in pursuit of healthy constructive discourse?" If you're honest with yourself, I think you'll find the answer might be "yes," but thus far has been "not in this thread."

"

Wolfarus wrote:

If you want HC, play the HC league. Thats what it's there for.

This is either a childish response or you lack understanding of what we're saying when we say HC.

"

Don't expect a business to run itself into the ground catering to your niche market, though.

Don't except GGG to flip on all their philosophies to make money. They chose the route they are on, if it's paying the bills I don't see how your suggestions are going to make them turn into a fortune 500 company suddenly. Seems going the route of being a niche game has done very well for them and if they started taking a more casual route they run right into D3 which is better suited for casuals and has WAY better marketing, along with resources for it, than GGG could ever match.

If I thought Goetz' reply to the post I requoted held any weight whatsoever, I wouldn't have requoted it. I fully understand their "arguments," but they are hollow and reek of a false sense of elitism and "this game is hardcore, except I don't play hardcore." It's a fantasized vision of what they want the game to be instead of what it really is: A long grind filled with RNG. Even exp is RNG-based due to this death penalty.

GGG has flipped on several things, and Act 4 is going to be feast or famine for them because many players are on the fence as it is.

Still, not ONE good reason has been given for why the death penalty should remain as it is in the face of how desync unfairly taxes exp. Not. One.

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@CanHasPants

"

"Am I capable of understanding and representing opposing opinions in my replies, in pursuit of healthy constructive discourse?"

As long as these trolls insist that desync isn't a problem, there is no opposing opinion to represent. Thus, it has deservedly met with the dismissive tone it has been given.

"

~Suggesting "elitism" is the only leg Goetz has to stand on (which he is prone to do, but he's made plenty of well reasoned replies, to which your "only leg to stand on" is "lel ur a troll.")

Where? I have yet to see one. Just more of "desync isn't real" even though the vast majority of players do experience it, it does get them killed, and it is due to bad design decisions (prioritizing economy over game play).
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If you guys want a serious discussion about this, it requires the acknowledgment that (a) desync is VERY real and (b) it is NOT always within player control when it causes them to die. If that isn't possible for you, it's also not possible for you to be taken seriously in such a discussion.