DonkeyFarts Incinerator Witch/Templar/Marauder/Scion Uber Atziri viable, updated as of 01/11/2015

Btw, since Scold's doesn't stun urself anymore is Unwavering Stance really needed? I know getting stunned makes Incinerate lose dps, but does it happen often?

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squurellkiller wrote:

Btw, since Scold's doesn't stun urself anymore is Unwavering Stance really needed? I know getting stunned makes Incinerate lose dps, but does it happen often?

It depends on what you are planning to do with this build. I spent all those points for unwavering stance for solely one purpose, uber atziri, in there you get stunned all the time, even if you have those stun nodes in witch tree. If you don't plan to be super uber atziri obsessed, than yes, the stun nodes in witch tree will be plenty for you to run maps with an instead with all the points you'll be saving take the fire wheel on the top of the tree.

Ashkatar,

Your build seems really awesome. Nevertheless, I have some trouble with the Cloak of Defiance. My concern is the same as Skylon who posted another incinerate build. This point of view is that there are so any things that hits us in Uber runs and I would say also from any hard hitters, that no mana regen can sustain that kind of damage taken, we lose then all mana, alsmost all health, and close from death. Mind over matter is a too VOLATILE defense. That's VOLATILE MoM probably did not help ZarlacRC in his experience, and I died often cause this volatile defense. This is a bit frustrating. Skylon developped an incinerate build using the ligthning coil, in order to get a fixed 40% damage mitigation all the time, instead of the very volatile MoM given by the Cloak of Defiance.

My question is the following. Do you think that with some adjustment, your build would still be possible, and who knows, maybe better on a suvivability aspect, in using a ligthninh coil instead of Cloak of Defiance ? Maybe that would requires to remove some herald in order to use a purity of ligthning, I don't know, and also I know that it could be tricky to get all max resist cause the resist malus of the ligtninh coil. But I haven't tried your build yet, and I am very interested to go ahead, except that I just want to see before if in this build we are stuck with the cloak of defiance that I really don't like, or if we can even increase the survivability for example in using the %40% fixed damage mitiation of the ligtninh coil instead.

There could be also the cloak of flame that gives a FIXED 20% damage mitigation, but....it's only 20%.....


What are your thoughts ?

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astrolab2000 wrote:

Ashkatar,

Your build seems really awesome. Nevertheless, I have some trouble with the Cloak of Defiance. My concern is the same as Skylon who posted another incinerate build. This point of view is that there are so any things that hits us in Uber runs and I would say also from any hard hitters, that no mana regen can sustain that kind of damage taken, we lose then all mana, alsmost all health, and close from death. Mind over matter is a too VOLATILE defense. That's VOLATILE MoM probably did not help ZarlacRC in his experience, and I died often cause this volatile defense. This is a bit frustrating. Skylon developped an incinerate build using the ligthning coil, in order to get a fixed 40% damage mitigation all the time, instead of the very volatile MoM given by the Cloak of Defiance.

My question is the following. Do you think that with some adjustment, your build would still be possible, and who knows, maybe better on a suvivability aspect, in using a ligthninh coil instead of Cloak of Defiance ? Maybe that would requires to remove some herald in order to use a purity of ligthning, I don't know, and also I know that it could be tricky to get all max resist cause the resist malus of the ligtninh coil. But I haven't tried your build yet, and I am very interested to go ahead, except that I just want to see before if in this build we are stuck with the cloak of defiance that I really don't like, or if we can even increase the survivability for example in using the %40% fixed damage mitiation of the ligtninh coil instead.

There could be also the cloak of flame that gives a FIXED 20% damage mitigation, but....it's only 20%.....


What are your thoughts ?

The main thing that both you and him seem to be missing out on (or just you), is the fact that lightning coil, is only the physical damage mitigation. We have immortal for that, absolute immunity when it's up, and AA to completely mitigate entirely the lower dmg phys abilities, for instance, AA completely counters out the dual hitting trio boss on the last phase, he barely does any damage (ps AA also entirely mitigates reflect maps for us since most dmg on our incinerate is fire based, we get barely any reflect dmg back).

Both me and the previous poster already worked out his problem in his personal case, first of all I stressed it in my guide that YOU WANT to target 900-1k unreserved mana in your build, which with average items and the skill tree I provided should be a very achievable target. My guess is, since he had only 600 unreserved mana and was dropping aa non stop, was because he either had a different skill tree, or went scrouge mcduck on the rare items, not much mana/es to go on them, so he experiences those problems. AND he wasn't using Rumi's unique flask, which again provides a large portion of our survival, it's like stacking multipliers to deal dmg, we'r stacking defensive mechanics to survive.

Cod+aa is by FAR the best option, non legacy cod provides 30% mitigation of BOTH phys and elemental dmg, with lightning coil, the trash mobs with chaos/lightning spells in uber instance will entirely one shot you, easily, it'll happen all the time. Unless you are forced to use purity of lightning, which again forces you to loose a herald so - dps. Over all, I would not agree with that at all, and if you take legacy cod into account, and GOOD rare items with t1-t2 rolls, my option is by far a LOT better imho. Just is ;p There's a reason why lightning coils were 10-15c in early league, and cods were 2ex.

Ohh I see now, thank you very much Ashkatar for your explanations. I have a CoD legacy and I understand now that I should use it for your build instead of the ligthninh coil. Also, another of my mistake, is that I wasn't using any Rumi at all, I will have to find out one on Poe.xyz. Thanks again !

Is it not that effective dps of incinerate is sheet*5*4 since stage three gives 300% more damage, i.e., you have 100% of your dps with additional 300% giving a total of 400%.

This should be more graspable considering that the first stage gives 100% more damage, meaning that it must be a multiplier starting at 2, 3 then 4.

Also, only cheap f***s use non legacy CoD or don't you recommend legacy for those who can have it?

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Bjarmfark wrote:

Is it not that effective dps of incinerate is sheet*5*4 since stage three gives 300% more damage, i.e., you have 100% of your dps with additional 300% giving a total of 400%.

This should be more graspable considering that the first stage gives 100% more damage, meaning that it must be a multiplier starting at 2, 3 then 4.

Also, only cheap f***s use non legacy CoD

or don't you recommend legacy for those who can have it?

As far as I understand, the way damage effectiveness works is this. For example we have a fireball spell, it does 50-100 dmg per cast, 1 cast a second. it's effectiveness is 60%. So, average dps, 75 a second, add 60% effectiveness on top of that we get about 50 dps. If we add an Added cold dmg to it in our made up example it'll be, 10-20 added cold dmg, what we GET added will be, 60% of it, 4-12 added cold dmg. And that is how spell effectiveness works, it affects both THE spell itself, AND anything added to it with other gems/gear whatever.

Also, this build was made on torment, the scold's bridle hello, there are no legacy cods here. And neither would there be on bloodlines. But legacy of course yes would improve the defenses, however I personally have not used it, and I would fully expect that IF you use legacy cod, you actually now need a higher unreserved mana. Right now, at 1k i more or less feel "safe" I don't ever get mana to 0 and loose aa. Now with legacy cod i would be taking 30% more damage onto my mana (non legacy 30%, legacy 40% - 10% difference=1/3) and that would be noticeable, so i'd probably need another 200 or so unreserved mana, maybe even 300. But on standard i think that's perfectly achievable in time.

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Ashkatar wrote:

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Bjarmfark wrote:

Is it not that effective dps of incinerate is sheet*5*4 since stage three gives 300% more damage, i.e., you have 100% of your dps with additional 300% giving a total of 400%.

This should be more graspable considering that the first stage gives 100% more damage, meaning that it must be a multiplier starting at 2, 3 then 4.

Also, only cheap f***s use non legacy CoD

or don't you recommend legacy for those who can have it?

As far as I understand, the way damage effectiveness works is this. For example we have a fireball spell, it does 50-100 dmg per cast, 1 cast a second. it's effectiveness is 60%. So, average dps, 75 a second, add 60% effectiveness on top of that we get about 50 dps. If we add an Added cold dmg to it in our made up example it'll be, 10-20 added cold dmg, what we GET added will be, 60% of it, 4-12 added cold dmg. And that is how spell effectiveness works, it affects both THE spell itself, AND anything added to it with other gems/gear whatever.

Also, this build was made on torment, the scold's bridle hello, there are no legacy cods here. And neither would there be on bloodlines. But legacy of course yes would improve the defenses, however I personally have not used it, and I would fully expect that IF you use legacy cod, you actually now need a higher unreserved mana. Right now, at 1k i more or less feel "safe" I don't ever get mana to 0 and loose aa. Now with legacy cod i would be taking 30% more damage onto my mana (non legacy 30%, legacy 40% - 10% difference=1/3) and that would be noticeable, so i'd probably need another 200 or so unreserved mana, maybe even 300. But on standard i think that's perfectly achievable in time.

But nowadays damage effectiveness in accounted for in the damage given on the gem (I guess wiki can prove my case). So that 75dps is actually 75 dps. Its when you add damage you have to account for effectiveness.

about CoD i know your character is on torment but I thought it would be nice to have a general guide for your build. I do agree with that you would need more free mana if you would use legacy CoD and from own experience I'd think that your current mana regen (330/s?) is far from enough for legacy.

My main is strongly based on CuteKitteh's tanky incinerator and I have taken it a step further and I got 2500 free mana and 640 mana/s which I have found to be more than adequate and I can stand in crematorium boss firestorm or face tank vaal smash and laser. In contrast when running half regen maps (landing on 300 mana/s) I actually need to care about placement and play "seriously".

I hope GGG don't nerf this principle too hard because this would be yet another clever build achieving crazy dps. Also that I want to partially incorporate this into the build I use atm.

well, they already nerfed it i mean cod's became legacy and aa was nerfed you know ;p and that's why my current guide is based in torment, because taking into account legacy items again i could just make something rediculous out of this, easily a lot more dmg and easily a lot more tank. But i prefer to keep things current patch specific.

And about unreserved mana, I currently have 1050 unreserved, and with standard gear and better rolls, I could see about 1250-1350 achievable quite easily. About mana regen, it's irrelevant what exactly i have right now, it's enough to keep me casting non stop during an uber run, and that's what I wanted it to be, if i were to increase my mana pool, and use legacy cod, my mana regen would also increase since it's % based. I do not see a point at all to possibly ever have 2500 unreserved mana, you'r basically planning a 7k hit not to one shot your mana, 7k hits don't really exist in this game unless it's a touch of god or vaal smash on uber or some crazy lightning crit on uber, which all you should be dodging anyway. I'm a huge critic of taking builds to ludicrous areas such as this because it's just simply a waste of efficiency, either skill points or mods on gear, you don't need to spend another 10 skill points and 5 mods on gear just because you can't be arsed to do some basic "don't stand in fire" movement. It's really pointless having such a high unreserved mana, again the general area you want to be in is 1k because that's the average "big hit" in this game, and I don't find any trouble at all doing mapping and uber with my 1050 unreserved and 330 or whatever regen.

And if you want to compare mine with CuteKitteh's incinerate I mean again, I don't want to really leave comments, but as I said my build is in my opinion the most efficient balance of dmg/survival output for incinerate builds in the current meta. I could say for example that he has too much life% which is unnecessary unless you are playing on a hardcore league, or I could point out that those same life nodes could be picked up in my build in the next 92-100 levels, and achieve a higher 204% total life from the tree. I could also say that he has no rf and so no matter how much whatever he takes, in a non crit build it will be smaller dmg than mine too. I could also say that he doesn't even have celestial punishment in his current skill tree, which DOUBLES, the chance of his shock/ignite/freeze AND adds 25% more dmg to those targets. And his "tank" videos are also pointless, in his vaal smash video on 74 map, he blocks the first 2 hits, I could do that too and say opie op tank, and than the third hit takes him to 10% which is actually less than I would expect from my build. I'd like him to post a vaal smash on normal atziri, because if he doesn't block that by the looks of it, it would kill him. And I CAN survive that too.

A very important point a lot of people seem to be missing out on, is the fact that, while my tooltip seems "similar" to many other incinerate builds using pledge of hands or other means, i also am using fire penetration in my 6l, which most those builds aren't. If i put 20/20 added lightning dmg instead of it for example i'd fully expect 14-15k tool tip area, but it would be LESS dmg, because of the way fire pen increases our damage. If you'r talking about atziri instance where every other mod is ele resistant AND all three bosses are 75% res, you can imagine how much dmg that gem alone adds compared to all the silly added lighning/added chaos gems people are adding just to see a higher number on tooltip but not in reality when playing.

Also tank is entirely irrelevant if you one shot all the bosses in the game before they ever get to apply their damage on you.

But than again he has a lot lower expectations from gear etc, but duno i don't see a point starting with low expectations if you'll end up changing end game anyway to produce better stats.

How the fuck do I sustain RF? I'm on 1 month league.

My gear is this.



I even took an extra 0.8% life regen on tree but it isn't enough. I also have mana problems when running purity of fire so COD is like.. out of the window. The only thing I can see which can boost my fire res is purity of fire, but i'd need it like level 21 with +2 level gem to be able to handle it.

Level 75 atm and working my way up to the aura effect node.