[1.3] [Torment] Unbridled (4xCWDT pawnage)

Does your setup work?
Isn't there a problem running the same spell in different CWDT?
It's unclear in the wiki if they have separate damage counters in this case.

I wasn't sure so i run 11 different spells... but some are obviously not as easy to aim and good for damage as discharge.

I think you're totally missing a curse. The first one is free lol, you'd totally win some dps with ele weakness or survivability with warlord.

EDIT : If this is right, you're setup is kinda bad. I don't think having smaller versions of discharge is worth loosing 250ms of damage per copy for the big discharge. However i wouldn't bet on it without dev answer I doubt someone managed to really test it.

I'm like 90% sure the spells are independent casts and cooldowns. Curse issue is a lack of sockets, I currently have a party member using weakness for me.

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Squirrel_of_doom wrote:

Does your setup work?
Isn't there a problem running the same spell in different CWDT?
It's unclear in the wiki if they have separate damage counters in this case.

Each CWDT linked spell has its own counter and when there's 2 instances of a CWDT linked spell only one will ever fire from a single triggering from damage. This is actually a good thing for discharge(unlike any other spell) because the lower level discharge wont consume the charges. Or so i read somewhere... im not 100% about it.

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Squirrel_of_doom wrote:

I think you're totally missing a curse. The first one is free lol, you'd totally win some dps with ele weakness or survivability with warlord.

I havent updated my links. This is a guide, not a step by step paint by the numbers build that must be followed exactly. Right now im using warlords mark.

Im currently using:

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Squirrel_of_doom wrote:

EDIT : If this is right, you're setup is kinda bad. I don't think having smaller versions of discharge is worth loosing 250ms of damage per copy for the big discharge. However i wouldn't bet on it without dev answer I doubt someone managed to really test it.

Im currently using lightning tendrils as my activator which has a cast time greater than 250ms. So that particular aspect doesnt really effect me. If someone runs a super quick activator, they probably wouldnt want 2 discharges.

The wiki lists this:

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Multiple spells can be linked to a single trigger gem but if two or more spells are of the same type (e.g.: Cast when Damage Taken - Fireball - Fireball) they will never trigger simultaneously, even if they are not on the same link.

I just hope that its true.

Still trying to figure out the order in which different pieces of gear fire their cwdt at. Does helm fire before body armor? Is it in the order in which they were equiped? I dont know.

Yeah sorry for not saying it but I was commenting on nicol's gear, not yours there.

Only one firing but 2 different cooldowns, doesn't look so logic to me. There's still a risk that you get 250ms of damage not counted. Or more as he is using 3 discharges.
Unless you never get hit that's still an issue whatever the activator because you loose on mob damage (unless you never get hit).

I wish there was a GGG answer somewhere cause if it works discharge is kinda stronger than flamesurge or cascade.

I'm just going with it for now, 71/72 maps are melting. worst case I swap a few gems when damage becomes a problem and check to see if there is actually an improvement.

I am 100% noticing discharges within 250ms of one another, but I'm not sure if I could notice a 10ms difference that the post you linked mentioned. I'm not seeing evidence of that number anywhere else though, and all the replies are correcting that statement, so I believe that the discharges are all separate cds. Now, obviously there is a slight concern of a low level discharge critting, and eating up the power charges for a high level one, but again I am generating max power charges very, very quickly and I doubt that would hold the build back.

I am wondering if I should socket 3 ice novas, though. Maybe other spells (quality shock nova?) could be of more use.

Going back to the original post, do you think one cybil's could be enough sustain with a shield (I want to use saffels endgame over dw)? If the leech is comparable on a small enough number of targets I could unsocket some leech gems, which frees up room, I'd probably try to vaal ele leech onto them too. Also, I'm now running oom with my cloak, I've equipped a hybrid flask but I was considering poacher's mark, it could be really good sustain for hp/mana and provide frenzy charges for discharge, meaning boots with hp could be used over blood dance.

I've done a test. Put 2 ball lightning in different CWDT setups. I've set them both in my skillbar. You see that whenever one goes off, the other one goes on cooldown too (you see the clockwise sweep).
So they share a cooldown for sure. Not sure if they loose the damage when the other one is on cooldown, or if it still counts and only delays to not have more than 4 cast/s. But even then you loose some time on it because of the small one (ex small one reach threshold 1ms before big one, big one is delayed for 250ms and you loose whatever was in between because you're already at the max necessary to trigger).

Probably identical for ice nova.
Cybil is clearly not enough to sustain. My life is dropping up and down all the time. Between the trigger and the cost of the CWDT spell i really need to pot a lot.

I'm not a fan of shock nova, the hole in the middle gets pretty big with aoe increase.
Outside of gmp stuff, there is firestorm, and cold snap which don't have too much targeting problems. I'm not sure there are enough spells to do 10ish good spells for the build. I think you always loose some dps to random direction where's there's no mob.

I now have leech on my discharge, really does too much damage i was dying to reflect too much.
I doubt you need leech on the small spells, they are more there for status ailments and charges.

Poachers works only on attacks, won't help you much. I have cyclone with lgoh, like 40+hp/hit, and it's still not big on the leech. Poachers is like 10...

I'm at 3.8k hp at level 82 and leveling is not really easy. Physical mobs hurts really much, hard not to get one shot being almost melee. So yeah hp is THE stat to get.

So basically, that means that it doesn't matter how many of the same spell that you socket, its the cwdts themselves that go on a global cooldown. Having a 5-6L cwdt would definitely be preferable for overall damage then, in extended fights. Then again, I'm using vaal molten shell for long fights right now, and until I run the actual numbers on if/when gems will overlap and how relevant that will end up being. If I can get a decent staff or somehow miraculously the harvest, I want to test with just one cwdt with around a ~1500 threshold in a 6L. Agernod North could be alright for this, I'd just use arc-shock nova-discharge-light pen-cwdt-leech or something along those lines.


There is the issue of getting hit at the exact wrong moment, causing a miss on a high level-cwdt, but that is a very very small window and just rng.

Also, lifelifelife I need a ton more and am going to have a difficult time finding it. Gear as of today:



I'm sitting on a few exalts and probably want to upgrade boots, but I do eventually want to try blood dance and resists are just so hard to keep capped.

Hi doing about the same thing, but i find a way to take damage while don't hurt me too much :


EB/MOM/cloak of flame/mokou But with mana gain when hit (27%) i will give more info when i will finish my build.

So i will get 20% mitigation by cloak & 30% by mom, i'am not sure if i will use vaal pact or if i could stick with 20/20 life leech

I use freezing pulse & CWDT ARC

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Nicol wrote:

So basically, that means that it doesn't matter how many of the same spell that you socket, its the cwdts themselves that go on a global cooldown. Having a 5-6L cwdt would definitely be preferable for overall damage then, in extended fights.

I don't get what you mean. If you put different spells they all get cast independantly of each other. There's no global CWDT cooldown on different spells. Put stuff on your skill bar, you'll see what goes on cooldown.

For resists, i'm playing scion, so +28% thanks to the way out to sentinel (wanted an easy vaal pact access). Around 90 i plan to get elementalist too cause yeah shield might go away eventually. With so many rares help from the tree is quite welcome.

If you wanna support vaal molten shell, increased duration? (you're a leech addict)?

I'm starting to think that this molten shell is the strongest part of the build lol.
High level CWDT, doesn't proc so often, maybe once per second.
Low level lacks damage (heralds can't really compensate the huge penalty from CWDT and it's kinda bad to have it on 500hp when you take slaps of 1500hp).
Kinda hard to find the balance.