Vengeance

hi, i think vengeance and reckoning and riposte should be able to be supported by fortify.
i think fortify would be a more interesting mechanic if it were strong, rather than weak.
i think the game would be better for it. thank you.

Vengeance could use a bit of a boost and also something to even out its effectiveness between weak frequent hits vs. strong occasional hits IMO. Something like:

- Stores up to X charges
- When it triggers, expend all charges to hit once per charge (this happens over a short period)
- Only triggers when an enemy is within striking range

This would let Vengeance provide a nice bit of burst damage as we charge into a pack.

EDIT:

BTW, would it be possible for Vengeance to swing a copy of your weapon's model (like Spectral Throw) instead of a generic sword/axe/etc.?

Vengeance isn't used much for several reasons:

1) RNG and Cooldown. Any skill based on randomness should have a higher relative power to other skills as the result cannot be controlled. The same train of thought can be applied to cooldowns.

2) Requires taking damage. A fairly well known PoE meme "Just don't get hit LOOOL 4Head" shows us a simple example on why Vengeance isn't being used.

3) Low damage effectiveness. Even if we disregard the RNG and Cooldown part of the skill, the damage done by Vengeance will be comparatively small to non-trigger skills.

4) Scales with Weapon Range. On paper, this seems like a benefit to the general AoE but the starting Area of Effect is so small that Vengeance is unlikely to benefit from any increases without Weapon Range.

Additionally, Weapon Range is only used by Cyclone builds, making Vengeance scalable on one (if popular) build.

Suggested changes:

1) Change "30% chance to Trigger this Skill when Hit" to "Triggered when N amount of damage is prevented" (similar to the Juggernaut ascendancy Unbreakable). I believe "prevented" in this case should also include Evasion, Dodge and Block to make it more useful for melee builds that use these types of defensive layers.

2) Add Threshold Jewels. Even with the changes to a more consistent damage application, Vengeance is unlikely to be used as a Main Damage Skill. Threshold Jewels could add a significant amount of Weapon Range to Vengeance (+4 per Jewel?) and Life Gain on Hit or Leech.

please make the AoE a bit bigger and release some MTX to make the animation more obvious, thanks!

Can we turn this into the missing block trigger gem for 2H blocking? :)

I couldn'find an mtx for vengeance. Such a wasted opportunity GGG. I would love to have an mtx for all counter skills.

Can you please create a myx that matches impale? Like when it procs bladed poles come out. Instead of just an explosion?

Ty.

I couldn't find an mtx for vengeance. Such a wasted opportunity GGG. I would love to have an mtx for all counter skills.

Can you please create a myx that matches impale? Like when it procs bladed poles come out. Instead of just an explosion?

Ty.

Any chance that the Target Limit for Vengeance could be looked at? Pretty disheartening to build around an objectively underperfoming skill, only to learn that there's an unreasonably low limit to the number of mobs you can hit so it's even WORSE than it should be (big AoE investment and Hits Can't be evaded means that even though I'm hitting most of the screen, sometimes things just don't take any damage)

I understand that there's a technical need for target limits for certain skills, but surely a cooldown-based skill with a soft cap of 2 or so triggers per second, fully invested, can't do much damage if you let it hit 100-200 monsters at a time? as it stands, even just a regular shrine in a non-juiced map has more monsters than one vengeance is allowed to hit

Any chance Vengeance will get a transfigured version in 3.24?

Short of a more creative take on the skill, the removal of the helmet enchantments saw Vengeance lose 30% increased Cooldown Recovery Rate. So a transfigured version where quality increased CDR instead of the chance to trigger (i.e. like the old Anomalous gem did) could be a low-hanging fruit...

...or you could surprise us with something cooler, GGG ;)

For the record, when I mentioned the possibility of "a more creative take on Vengeance" in the above post, the removal of all three counterattacks and their replacement with the new Retaliation skills wasn't what I had in mind /s

IMHO, the new Retaliation skills are too gimmicky, especially due to the limited window of opportunity to actually use them, and the fact said usage cannot be automated (i.e. they cannot be triggered, among other things.)

But I suppose reintroducing the former counterattacks -or at least Vengeance, which was my favourite skill- is out of the question, isn't it?