[1.3.0] Too Many Clones! -- PvE Templar Archer Summoner

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DeadlyParadox wrote:

Recorded a video of my set up clearing a 68 Spider Forest map. I believe chain is better than LMP and provides more consistent results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYldRN-Ie0k

Great video. :D

I really like the single trap linkage and a "hardcasted" mirror arrow since it gives you a nice aoe/single target tradeoff without having to do something janky (like *cough* weapon swap to SRS). I'd be all over that if I had better gear (well, 5Ls and higher level aura gems) and could afford to use fewer, stronger trap minions to clear out mob piles.

Chain is definitely a strong option in place of LMP/GMP. It has a great shape fit for minions since they're usually summoned into the middle of the pack (due to trap) and need to hit in all directions around them. Also loses no efficiency at range as well. Of course, Chain means 0% pierce which means no Drillneck (which is a truly humongous amount of damage added to the minions) and no Projectile Weakness.

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pneuma wrote:

Of course, Chain means 0% pierce which means no Drillneck (which is a truly humongous amount of damage added to the minions) and no Projectile Weakness.

Personally, I don't think Drillneck all that great for Mirrow/Blink. You can get a pretty good +1 Projectile Quiver for the same or less currency and combined with chain it does absolutely amazing damage. Having Chin Sol also more or less gives you the same effect as Infractem + Drillneck, as long as you are at close range.
And Projectile Weakness can be easily swapped for Elemental Weakness, still giving you a massive damage boost.

I'm right now levelling a templar as it seems a little better than the shadow, simply due to the first few nodes not being a waste of skillpoints later on. As for passives I've decided to pick up as much Minion damage as possible this time around and Scrap the Elemental Equilibrium. I am also getting rid of the Minion Instability, this oftentimes leads to my clones not getting as many shots off in case of a rogue exile being around. I've found that minions become alot more reliable without them exploding prematurely.
Skilltee will look like this when I'm around 75, right now I am only level 50 and got the basic framework done.

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ragbasti wrote:

I don't think Drillneck all that great for Mirrow/Blink.

100% increased damage is out of this world.
Keep in mind that minions don't normally get big %increased damage scaling.
A L20 BA/MA gives 114% increased minion damage.
There's 60% increased minion damage on the tree (+30% from LotD cluster in Witch).
A L20 Minion Damage support gem is 77% increased minion damage.
(So far, 251% increased * damage.)
... And then Drillneck is another 100%! That's ~40% more damage than "just" 251% increased (not to mention the quiver itself has a pretty hefty amount of flat physical and enough aspd to cap your minions with just FOffering).

Chin Sol's negative penalty at long range really needs to be accounted for.
From my own experience, most of my damage is output at long range.
Watch the linked video above to verify the same.

If you haven't played the build with an Infractem or Glare, both are ~cheap bows right now.

I also think an "ideal" setup would use both Projectile AND Elemental Weakness, so it shouldn't be a trade-off in that regard. The tree also walks right past +1 curses (if not just using Windscreams), and I'm pretty sure I'd trade 4 points (say, minionlife*3 + 5% life) for that for damage purposes.

I'm about to have a bunch more time to experiment on RoA for dual cursing + EE, so I'll know for sure soon enough. :)

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Let me know how the Templar leveling process goes.

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pneuma wrote:

Chin Sol's negative penalty at long range really needs to be accounted for.
From my own experience, most of my damage is output at long range.
Watch the linked video above to verify the same.

If you haven't played the build with an Infractem or Glare, both are ~cheap bows right now.

I also think an "ideal" setup would use both Projectile AND Elemental Weakness, so it shouldn't be a trade-off in that regard. The tree also walks right past +1 curses (if not just using Windscreams), and I'm pretty sure I'd trade 4 points (say, minionlife*3 + 5% life) for

Firstly, I'm pretty sure that Chin Sol has no negative penalty, is certainly doesn't say so in the text and the effect is NOT Point Blank, it is seperate which is also why they stack.
I'll check back with the forum though.

As I mentioned rally early, I simply used Chin Sol because I had it lying around and without a drillneck I don't see the point of switching to an Infractem.

Secondly, of course dual curse would be better but I personally didn't find a way to accomodate it yet.
As for Elemental Equilibrium, I made use of it so rarely that I decided to scrap it. If I feel the need for it later, I can always spend the single point to grab it, luckily it's nothing I need to path toward.
Also not having EE gives me the chance to run all 3 damage auras, which I am currently thinking about, since the minions have an attack speed cap. Just flesh offering and minion ASPD passives are enough to hit that, so I can probably scrap my haste and grab anger.

Of course it also has to be taken into account that I am using a +1 arrow Quiver, that thing alone makes a HUGE difference.

I think the main difference is in style here. I use my clones at Point Blank, not repositioning them with Convocation: I get into the frey, place my traps, probably get hit - triggering my Flesh offering and then stuff more or less dies.


PS:
Leveling right now is ROUGH xD
Just speccing only the framework for my final build pretty much leaves me with having to be leeched from 50-65 xD
As soon as I hit 65 I can use all of my old gear though, except the Jaws of Agony, so starting from there I'll be back to old form.

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ragbasti wrote:

Firstly, I'm pretty sure that Chin Sol has no negative penalty, is certainly doesn't say so in the text and the effect is NOT Point Blank, it is seperate which is also why they stack.
I'll check back with the forum though.

No, you're right. I'm just so used to packaging Chin Sol and PBA together that it's hard to think of them separately.

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ragbasti wrote:

I think the main difference is in style here. I use my clones at Point Blank, not repositioning them with Convocation: I get into the frey, place my traps, probably get hit - triggering my Flesh offering and then stuff more or less dies.

Seems that way. I try to get hit as little as possible, just ducking in with decently high move and trap throwing speed to get my clones up, then I move or BA away, recluster my troops, drop a FOffering, and move on.

IS vaal haste really worthless? Does chain really adds that much clearing power? aren't you losing a ton of aoe?

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Sammun wrote:

IS vaal haste really worthless? Does chain really adds that much clearing power? aren't you losing a ton of aoe?

From the information on the previous page, you only need a trivial amount of aspd% to cap aspd on clones even with the slowest base bows.

Chain is a 1.5x damage multiplier if there are enemies to hit. The plus side is that enemy positioning doesn't matter at all. Namely, if your clone is surrounded, it can hit on all sides of it without wasting any firing time.

LMP/GMP can technically add more damage, but only if you position clones relative to enemies so that they're firing across enemy positions (even without pierce).

As for AoE... eh, I only use LMP. GMP would be overkill. The biggest source of AoE is summoning 3/6/9 clones in the first place.

Finally 65 with the templar and I must say it definitely performs better than the shadow at that level. The extra mana regen you pick up at the start turns out to be huge. I have taken barely any +% max mana nodes and my mana regen sits around 80/sec with Immortal Flesh.
Once I have invested into more mana nodes I'll see if I can scrap the immortal flesh alltogether.

Another option would be to use clarity again together with AA as additional defense.
Especially with my more "in your face" play style I think that AA would be a huge benefit to me.

Very interesting idea guys,I'm going to give it a try soon.I like trapping (trapping with minions is a twist),got an Infractem with 5L/6 os,'Jack,tabs full of gear I think will do the job,and a L65 Templar with a full respec waiting.
I just love the idea of an archer/trapper/summoner Templar 8) Thanks for the fun!

I've just found a stupidly funny way of playing this character.

Had a few regrets left and a very silly idea:
You know how you can trigger traps immediately with reduced duration and Sunblast?
Well, I scrapped the duration nodes, put on a sunblast and threw in a reduced duration gem:
Zergrush would be the correct term I guess :D

It is by no means as effective what I have been up to so far - but I was still able to clear a few lvl 69 maps with it ^^